0' notation
in [Relativity]
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From: blackhead on 16 Jul 2010 12:07 On 16 July, 02:23, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message > > news:fb319edc-bf6a-4e06-97ef-b70861199b43(a)q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > On 15 July, 00:39, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > [snipped] > > Audience: v = x/t, what Einstein means is x' = x- x/t *t = 0' which is > > less confusing because blockhead added a const. Or was it a const' ? > > 0' = 0 - vt > > 0' = 0 - v*1 for t = 1 > 0' = 0 - v*5 for t = 5 > ================================================= > Huh? > 0' = 1 - v*1 for t = 1 and x = 1 > 0' = 5 - v*5 for t = 5 and x = 5 What is the 0 in 0' suppose to mean then? I thought the 0 in 0' was the x value, and 0' was the x' value in x' = x - vt = 0 - vt which doesn't generally = 0. [snipped]
From: Androcles on 16 Jul 2010 13:40 "blackhead" <larryharson(a)softhome.net> wrote in message news:4a5af602-866e-4dee-bc73-a3f47bda2fb0(a)g35g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... | On 16 July, 02:23, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: | > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message | > | > news:fb319edc-bf6a-4e06-97ef-b70861199b43(a)q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... | > On 15 July, 00:39, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: | > | | [snipped] | | > > Audience: v = x/t, what Einstein means is x' = x- x/t *t = 0' which is | > > less confusing because blockhead added a const. Or was it a const' ? | > | > 0' = 0 - vt | > | > 0' = 0 - v*1 for t = 1 | > 0' = 0 - v*5 for t = 5 | > ================================================= | > Huh? | > 0' = 1 - v*1 for t = 1 and x = 1 | > 0' = 5 - v*5 for t = 5 and x = 5 | | What is the 0 in 0' suppose to mean then? | | I thought the 0 in 0' was the x value, and 0' was the x' value in x' = | x - vt = 0 - vt which doesn't generally = 0. | | [snipped] http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/x'=x-vt.gif One wheel' (wheel-prime) of the cart' (cart-prime) is located at 0', the other wheel' is located at 4'. The length' (wheelbase') of the cart is 4', independent of time'. It is a const'. There is another const. (const-no-prime.) on the track. In this spacetime diagram: http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/LT.gif t0: The back of the train reaches the start of the fence when the light is turned on. The light travels the length of the fence, 80 units. The time for light to travel 80 units is 16 us. Speed of light is thus 80/16 = 5 units/us. The light travels the length of the train, 40 units. The time for light to travel 40 units is 8 us. Speed of light is thus 40/8 = 5 units/us. t1: The light travels back along the fence 20 units. The time for light to travel 20 units is 4 us. Speed of light is thus 20/4 = 5 units/us. The light travels back along the train 40 units. The time for light to travel 40 units is 8 us. Speed of light is thus 40/8 = 5 units/us. t2: repeat at t0. I've used the Lorentz contraction when the light goes backwards and the Einstein expansion when the light goes forwards. I've made it possible for light to travel at 5 units per microsecond in all frames of reference, 80/16 = 5, 40/8 = 5, 20/4 = 5. This is why we see trains move by peristalsis. From that you should be able to calculate the length of the fence (80 units) in meters because you know the speed of light exactly in all brains of inert references and dead frames of wooden fences, but shining a light forward on a train stretches it, shining it backwards shrinks it, making it harder to calculate its length (which is not a contracted const. but might be a constant).
From: blackhead on 16 Jul 2010 15:42 On 16 July, 18:40, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message > > news:4a5af602-866e-4dee-bc73-a3f47bda2fb0(a)g35g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > | On 16 July, 02:23, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > | > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message > | > > | >news:fb319edc-bf6a-4e06-97ef-b70861199b43(a)q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com.... > | > On 15 July, 00:39, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > | > > | > | [snipped] > | > | > > Audience: v = x/t, what Einstein means is x' = x- x/t *t = 0' which is > | > > less confusing because blockhead added a const. Or was it a const' ? > | > > | > 0' = 0 - vt > | > > | > 0' = 0 - v*1 for t = 1 > | > 0' = 0 - v*5 for t = 5 > | > ================================================= > | > Huh? > | > 0' = 1 - v*1 for t = 1 and x = 1 > | > 0' = 5 - v*5 for t = 5 and x = 5 > | What is the 0 in 0' suppose to mean then? > | > | I thought the 0 in 0' was the x value, and 0' was the x' value in x' = > | x - vt = 0 - vt which doesn't generally = 0. > | > | [snipped] > > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/x'=x-vt.gif > One wheel' (wheel-prime) of the cart' (cart-prime) is located at 0', > the other wheel' is located at 4'. > The length' (wheelbase') of the cart is 4', independent of time'. It is > a const'. There is another const. (const-no-prime.) on the track. > > In this spacetime diagram: > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/LT.gif > > t0: The back of the train reaches the start of the fence when the light is > turned on. > The light travels the length of the fence, 80 units. > The time for light to travel 80 units is 16 us. Speed of light is thus 80/16 > = 5 units/us. > The light travels the length of the train, 40 units. > The time for light to travel 40 units is 8 us. Speed of light is thus 40/8 = > 5 units/us. > > t1: The light travels back along the fence 20 units. > The time for light to travel 20 units is 4 us. Speed of light is thus 20/4 = > 5 units/us. > The light travels back along the train 40 units. > The time for light to travel 40 units is 8 us. Speed of light is thus 40/8 = > 5 units/us. > > t2: repeat at t0. > > I've used the Lorentz contraction when the light goes backwards and the > Einstein > expansion when the light goes forwards. > I've made it possible for light to travel at 5 units per microsecond in all > frames of > reference, 80/16 = 5, 40/8 = 5, 20/4 = 5. > This is why we see trains move by peristalsis. > > From that you should be able to calculate the length of the fence (80 units) > in meters because you know the speed of light exactly in all brains of inert > references and dead frames of wooden fences, but shining a light forward > on a train stretches it, shining it backwards shrinks it, making it harder > to > calculate its length (which is not a contracted const. but might be a > constant). Nicely done gifs. So is 0' just shorthand for x' = 0 then?
From: Androcles on 16 Jul 2010 16:04 "blackhead" <larryharson(a)softhome.net> wrote in message news:08bce7b7-e883-4d25-a527-764b033b0abf(a)w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com... On 16 July, 18:40, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message > > news:4a5af602-866e-4dee-bc73-a3f47bda2fb0(a)g35g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > | On 16 July, 02:23, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > | > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message > | > > | > >news:fb319edc-bf6a-4e06-97ef-b70861199b43(a)q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > | > On 15 July, 00:39, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > | > > | > | [snipped] > | > | > > Audience: v = x/t, what Einstein means is x' = x- x/t *t = 0' which > is > | > > less confusing because blockhead added a const. Or was it a const' ? > | > > | > 0' = 0 - vt > | > > | > 0' = 0 - v*1 for t = 1 > | > 0' = 0 - v*5 for t = 5 > | > ================================================= > | > Huh? > | > 0' = 1 - v*1 for t = 1 and x = 1 > | > 0' = 5 - v*5 for t = 5 and x = 5 > | What is the 0 in 0' suppose to mean then? > | > | I thought the 0 in 0' was the x value, and 0' was the x' value in x' = > | x - vt = 0 - vt which doesn't generally = 0. > | > | [snipped] > > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/x'=x-vt.gif > One wheel' (wheel-prime) of the cart' (cart-prime) is located at 0', > the other wheel' is located at 4'. > The length' (wheelbase') of the cart is 4', independent of time'. It is > a const'. There is another const. (const-no-prime.) on the track. > > In this spacetime diagram: > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/LT.gif > > t0: The back of the train reaches the start of the fence when the light is > turned on. > The light travels the length of the fence, 80 units. > The time for light to travel 80 units is 16 us. Speed of light is thus > 80/16 > = 5 units/us. > The light travels the length of the train, 40 units. > The time for light to travel 40 units is 8 us. Speed of light is thus 40/8 > = > 5 units/us. > > t1: The light travels back along the fence 20 units. > The time for light to travel 20 units is 4 us. Speed of light is thus 20/4 > = > 5 units/us. > The light travels back along the train 40 units. > The time for light to travel 40 units is 8 us. Speed of light is thus 40/8 > = > 5 units/us. > > t2: repeat at t0. > > I've used the Lorentz contraction when the light goes backwards and the > Einstein > expansion when the light goes forwards. > I've made it possible for light to travel at 5 units per microsecond in > all > frames of > reference, 80/16 = 5, 40/8 = 5, 20/4 = 5. > This is why we see trains move by peristalsis. > > From that you should be able to calculate the length of the fence (80 > units) > in meters because you know the speed of light exactly in all brains of > inert > references and dead frames of wooden fences, but shining a light forward > on a train stretches it, shining it backwards shrinks it, making it harder > to > calculate its length (which is not a contracted const. but might be a > constant). Nicely done gifs. ============================= Thank you, but they are old. Have you understood the difference between the Lrntz. cntrctn. and the E.i.n.s.t.e.i.n e.x.p.a.n.s.i.o.n now ? They are both pots that crack when you fire them in the furnace of logic, of no use to anyone except sci-fi writers. So is 0' just shorthand for x' = 0 then? ============================= Only if x' is just shorthand for x' = x'.
From: blackhead on 16 Jul 2010 17:03
On 16 July, 21:04, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message > > news:08bce7b7-e883-4d25-a527-764b033b0abf(a)w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com... > On 16 July, 18:40, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > > > > > > > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message > > >news:4a5af602-866e-4dee-bc73-a3f47bda2fb0(a)g35g2000yqa.googlegroups.com.... > > | On 16 July, 02:23, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > > | > "blackhead" <larryhar...(a)softhome.net> wrote in message > > | > > > | > > >news:fb319edc-bf6a-4e06-97ef-b70861199b43(a)q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > | > On 15 July, 00:39, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > > | > > > | > > | [snipped] > > | > > | > > Audience: v = x/t, what Einstein means is x' = x- x/t *t = 0' which > > is > > | > > less confusing because blockhead added a const. Or was it a const' ? > > | > > > | > 0' = 0 - vt > > | > > > | > 0' = 0 - v*1 for t = 1 > > | > 0' = 0 - v*5 for t = 5 > > | > ================================================= > > | > Huh? > > | > 0' = 1 - v*1 for t = 1 and x = 1 > > | > 0' = 5 - v*5 for t = 5 and x = 5 > > | What is the 0 in 0' suppose to mean then? > > | > > | I thought the 0 in 0' was the x value, and 0' was the x' value in x' = > > | x - vt = 0 - vt which doesn't generally = 0. > > | > > | [snipped] > > >http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/x'=x-vt.gif > > One wheel' (wheel-prime) of the cart' (cart-prime) is located at 0', > > the other wheel' is located at 4'. > > The length' (wheelbase') of the cart is 4', independent of time'. It is > > a const'. There is another const. (const-no-prime.) on the track. > > > In this spacetime diagram: > >http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/LT.gif > > > t0: The back of the train reaches the start of the fence when the light is > > turned on. > > The light travels the length of the fence, 80 units. > > The time for light to travel 80 units is 16 us. Speed of light is thus > > 80/16 > > = 5 units/us. > > The light travels the length of the train, 40 units. > > The time for light to travel 40 units is 8 us. Speed of light is thus 40/8 > > = > > 5 units/us. > > > t1: The light travels back along the fence 20 units. > > The time for light to travel 20 units is 4 us. Speed of light is thus 20/4 > > = > > 5 units/us. > > The light travels back along the train 40 units. > > The time for light to travel 40 units is 8 us. Speed of light is thus 40/8 > > = > > 5 units/us. > > > t2: repeat at t0. > > > I've used the Lorentz contraction when the light goes backwards and the > > Einstein > > expansion when the light goes forwards. > > I've made it possible for light to travel at 5 units per microsecond in > > all > > frames of > > reference, 80/16 = 5, 40/8 = 5, 20/4 = 5. > > This is why we see trains move by peristalsis. > > > From that you should be able to calculate the length of the fence (80 > > units) > > in meters because you know the speed of light exactly in all brains of > > inert > > references and dead frames of wooden fences, but shining a light forward > > on a train stretches it, shining it backwards shrinks it, making it harder > > to > > calculate its length (which is not a contracted const. but might be a > > constant). > > Nicely done gifs. > ============================= > Thank you, but they are old. Have you understood the difference > between the Lrntz. cntrctn. and the E.i.n.s.t.e.i.n e.x.p.a.n.s.i.o.n > now ? > They are both pots that crack when you fire them in the furnace of logic, > of no use to anyone except sci-fi writers. I'll reply to that thread when I understand what you mean when you write 0', since I'm still confused. I made a reply, but realized that what i thought you meant by 0' might be wrong, so making the reply pointless and probably ending up creating and argument over a misunderstanding. I think it is either: 1. Shorthand for x' = 0 2. the 0 refers to the x=0, the 0' refers to the image of 0 |-> 0-vt > So is 0' just shorthand for x' = 0 then? > ============================= > > Only if x' is just shorthand for x' = x'.- Hide quoted text - There's no confusion wih x' since it's defined as x - vt, or x'(x,v,t). It's you who's defined 0', so what do you mean by it? > - Show quoted text - |