6800XT vs 7600GS vs x800 Pro for AGP
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From: First of One on 24 Dec 2006 13:47 "BigSky" <bmartin1984(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:qBejh.1253$6Z5.509(a)trndny01... > Third, it is well know across the net that ATI series 97XX and 98XX cards > have overheating problems when running on motherboards with older VIA > chipsets (400 series as I have and earlier). Running on certain motherboard chipsets won't cause the card to run hotter. The 97xx and 98xx cards are not "well-known" to overheat. I had a 9800 Pro running on an SiS 735 chipset, and later on a VIA KT800 chipset, and never had overheating problems with either the stock cooler or AC VGA Silencer. In fact, the card was quite happy when overclocked to 9800XT speeds at stock voltage. > I have a similar issue with a 9700 Pro running on a KT300 VIA chipset. I > had to use ATI tray tools to set the AGP at 4x and turn off fast writes to > prevent the black screens. So it actually isn't an overheating issue, despite what you said in the original post. I had to drop the AGP speed to 4x on my KT800 board, too. At AGP 8x Battlefield 2 would freeze about about 5 minutes, but it didn't give a black screen. Since AGP 4x doesn't degrade game performance at all, it wasn't an issue. This has nothing to do with heat, but ATi and VIA's AGP implementation. If SmartGART worked as it should, the AGP speed would have been automatically limited at 4x and you wouldn't see this problem with the 9700 Pro. > I couldn't increase the AGP voltage as suggested because my motherboards > don't support that option. Increasing the AGP voltage usually isn't necessary for stability. The only time it may be useful is overclocking the motherboard, where the frequency dividers may not allow the AGP clock to remain at its original value with a higher FSB clock. > Using older ATI drivers or Omega drivers adds some stability but > invariably the 9800 Pro gets very hot...at least the memory does even > though I have large copper heatsinks on them. Keep in mind anything over 50C will feel very hot to the touch. So unless you are measuring the temperature with an instrument, you won't know if the card is running *excessively* hot. If the heat sinks are getting hot, then they are doing their job of whisking the heat away from the chip and exposing it to the airstream. > So, I'm on top of the cooling issue. I think this card is either going > bad OR its just a manifestation of this VIA-ATI-driver issue that is > plagueing these older cards. It almost seems like ATI is trying to get us > to upgrade our cards on purpose. Any newer ATi or nVidia card may have the same issue. In fact, some cards were designed natively for PCIe and have to use a AGP bridge chip, adding another layer of complexity. Your Ti4200 served you well because it was limited to AGP 4x by design (fewer things to go wrong...). Hell, the Voodoo5 was once considered the stability king because it used no AGP functions. -- "War is the continuation of politics by other means. It can therefore be said that politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
From: BigSky on 25 Dec 2006 15:48 Well, Yes and no. There is a huge amount of stuff on the web about problems with the 9800 series and older VIA chipsets. It does seem that the problem lies in the VIA GART drivers and Radeon SmartGart somewhere. Last night I tried backing down to AGP 4x with the new 754 motherboard and was able to run BF2 at 1024x768 and medium settings without problems for 40 minutes. Then today we loaded up Star Wars BF2 and Rome Total War. We got about 15-20 minutes into each one and ended up with a black screen and reboot. Don't know if running the older 5.6 drivrs is the problem, Diamond xtreme sound card issues, or just an old video card starting to go bad. Its really frustrating. I'm really tempted to just go for a new video card but keeping wondering if its just one setting or another that is causing these problems with newer games. Any ideas??? BigSky "First of One" <root(a)localhost> wrote in message news:8PKdnXg6Jr2zVhPYnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d(a)giganews.com... > "BigSky" <bmartin1984(a)verizon.net> wrote in message > news:qBejh.1253$6Z5.509(a)trndny01... >> Third, it is well know across the net that ATI series 97XX and 98XX cards >> have overheating problems when running on motherboards with older VIA >> chipsets (400 series as I have and earlier). > > Running on certain motherboard chipsets won't cause the card to run > hotter. > The 97xx and 98xx cards are not "well-known" to overheat. I had a 9800 Pro > running on an SiS 735 chipset, and later on a VIA KT800 chipset, and never > had overheating problems with either the stock cooler or AC VGA Silencer. > In > fact, the card was quite happy when overclocked to 9800XT speeds at stock > voltage. > >> I have a similar issue with a 9700 Pro running on a KT300 VIA chipset. I >> had to use ATI tray tools to set the AGP at 4x and turn off fast writes >> to >> prevent the black screens. > > So it actually isn't an overheating issue, despite what you said in the > original post. I had to drop the AGP speed to 4x on my KT800 board, too. > At > AGP 8x Battlefield 2 would freeze about about 5 minutes, but it didn't > give > a black screen. Since AGP 4x doesn't degrade game performance at all, it > wasn't an issue. This has nothing to do with heat, but ATi and VIA's AGP > implementation. If SmartGART worked as it should, the AGP speed would have > been automatically limited at 4x and you wouldn't see this problem with > the > 9700 Pro. > >> I couldn't increase the AGP voltage as suggested because my motherboards >> don't support that option. > > Increasing the AGP voltage usually isn't necessary for stability. The only > time it may be useful is overclocking the motherboard, where the frequency > dividers may not allow the AGP clock to remain at its original value with > a > higher FSB clock. > >> Using older ATI drivers or Omega drivers adds some stability but >> invariably the 9800 Pro gets very hot...at least the memory does even >> though I have large copper heatsinks on them. > > Keep in mind anything over 50C will feel very hot to the touch. So unless > you are measuring the temperature with an instrument, you won't know if > the > card is running *excessively* hot. If the heat sinks are getting hot, then > they are doing their job of whisking the heat away from the chip and > exposing it to the airstream. > >> So, I'm on top of the cooling issue. I think this card is either going >> bad OR its just a manifestation of this VIA-ATI-driver issue that is >> plagueing these older cards. It almost seems like ATI is trying to get >> us >> to upgrade our cards on purpose. > > Any newer ATi or nVidia card may have the same issue. In fact, some cards > were designed natively for PCIe and have to use a AGP bridge chip, adding > another layer of complexity. Your Ti4200 served you well because it was > limited to AGP 4x by design (fewer things to go wrong...). Hell, the > Voodoo5 > was once considered the stability king because it used no AGP functions. > > -- > "War is the continuation of politics by other means. > It can therefore be said that politics is war without > bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed." > > >
From: First of One on 25 Dec 2006 16:19 Well, if all else fails, upgrade the video card. The 7600GS and X800 Pro / GTO are fast enough to run BF2 with transparency AA, so you get a meaningful improvement in image quality. Just be prepared to use some of the tricks as before (dropping to AGP 4x is almost a given). -- "War is the continuation of politics by other means. It can therefore be said that politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed." "BigSky" <bmartin1984(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:oOWjh.1658$511.597(a)trnddc06... > There is a huge amount of stuff on the web about problems with the 9800 > series and older VIA chipsets. It does seem that the problem lies in the > VIA GART drivers and Radeon SmartGart somewhere. > > Last night I tried backing down to AGP 4x with the new 754 motherboard and > was able to run BF2 at 1024x768 and medium settings without problems for > 40 minutes. Then today we loaded up Star Wars BF2 and Rome Total War. We > got about 15-20 minutes into each one and ended up with a black screen and > reboot. Don't know if running the older 5.6 drivrs is the problem, > Diamond xtreme sound card issues, or just an old video card starting to go > bad. Its really frustrating. I'm really tempted to just go for a new > video card but keeping wondering if its just one setting or another that > is causing these problems with newer games. > > Any ideas??? > > BigSky
From: BigSky on 26 Dec 2006 17:45 Looks like BFII crashes after 15 minutes or so causing a reboot on both my 9700Pro (2800+ socket A KT333, onboard sound) and my 9800Pro (Semp 3100+ socket 754 nForce 3, Diamond xTreme 7.1 sound). I turned off fast writes and set the AGP to 4X. I'll try updating my drivers to the lastest recommended by ATI and dropping down to 800x600 and turn off any hardware sound acceleration. Rome Total War lasted beyond 40 minutes with the 9800Pro and fast writes turned off but eventually crashed. Man, stink. "BigSky" <bmartin1984(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:oOWjh.1658$511.597(a)trnddc06... > Well, > > Yes and no. > > There is a huge amount of stuff on the web about problems with the 9800 > series and older VIA chipsets. It does seem that the problem lies in the > VIA GART drivers and Radeon SmartGart somewhere. > > Last night I tried backing down to AGP 4x with the new 754 motherboard and > was able to run BF2 at 1024x768 and medium settings without problems for > 40 minutes. Then today we loaded up Star Wars BF2 and Rome Total War. We > got about 15-20 minutes into each one and ended up with a black screen and > reboot. Don't know if running the older 5.6 drivrs is the problem, > Diamond xtreme sound card issues, or just an old video card starting to go > bad. Its really frustrating. I'm really tempted to just go for a new > video card but keeping wondering if its just one setting or another that > is causing these problems with newer games. > > Any ideas??? > > BigSky > > > "First of One" <root(a)localhost> wrote in message > news:8PKdnXg6Jr2zVhPYnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d(a)giganews.com... >> "BigSky" <bmartin1984(a)verizon.net> wrote in message >> news:qBejh.1253$6Z5.509(a)trndny01... >>> Third, it is well know across the net that ATI series 97XX and 98XX >>> cards >>> have overheating problems when running on motherboards with older VIA >>> chipsets (400 series as I have and earlier). >> >> Running on certain motherboard chipsets won't cause the card to run >> hotter. >> The 97xx and 98xx cards are not "well-known" to overheat. I had a 9800 >> Pro >> running on an SiS 735 chipset, and later on a VIA KT800 chipset, and >> never >> had overheating problems with either the stock cooler or AC VGA Silencer. >> In >> fact, the card was quite happy when overclocked to 9800XT speeds at stock >> voltage. >> >>> I have a similar issue with a 9700 Pro running on a KT300 VIA chipset. >>> I >>> had to use ATI tray tools to set the AGP at 4x and turn off fast writes >>> to >>> prevent the black screens. >> >> So it actually isn't an overheating issue, despite what you said in the >> original post. I had to drop the AGP speed to 4x on my KT800 board, too. >> At >> AGP 8x Battlefield 2 would freeze about about 5 minutes, but it didn't >> give >> a black screen. Since AGP 4x doesn't degrade game performance at all, it >> wasn't an issue. This has nothing to do with heat, but ATi and VIA's AGP >> implementation. If SmartGART worked as it should, the AGP speed would >> have >> been automatically limited at 4x and you wouldn't see this problem with >> the >> 9700 Pro. >> >>> I couldn't increase the AGP voltage as suggested because my motherboards >>> don't support that option. >> >> Increasing the AGP voltage usually isn't necessary for stability. The >> only >> time it may be useful is overclocking the motherboard, where the >> frequency >> dividers may not allow the AGP clock to remain at its original value with >> a >> higher FSB clock. >> >>> Using older ATI drivers or Omega drivers adds some stability but >>> invariably the 9800 Pro gets very hot...at least the memory does even >>> though I have large copper heatsinks on them. >> >> Keep in mind anything over 50C will feel very hot to the touch. So unless >> you are measuring the temperature with an instrument, you won't know if >> the >> card is running *excessively* hot. If the heat sinks are getting hot, >> then >> they are doing their job of whisking the heat away from the chip and >> exposing it to the airstream. >> >>> So, I'm on top of the cooling issue. I think this card is either going >>> bad OR its just a manifestation of this VIA-ATI-driver issue that is >>> plagueing these older cards. It almost seems like ATI is trying to get >>> us >>> to upgrade our cards on purpose. >> >> Any newer ATi or nVidia card may have the same issue. In fact, some cards >> were designed natively for PCIe and have to use a AGP bridge chip, adding >> another layer of complexity. Your Ti4200 served you well because it was >> limited to AGP 4x by design (fewer things to go wrong...). Hell, the >> Voodoo5 >> was once considered the stability king because it used no AGP functions. >> >> -- >> "War is the continuation of politics by other means. >> It can therefore be said that politics is war without >> bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed." >> >> >> > >
From: Frodo on 29 Dec 2006 15:29
Reloading/updating motherboard chipset drivers might help. "Riley" <smartin60(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:iB%ih.55$oo4.38(a)trndny09... > Got upgrade my boys system because his old Radeon 9800 Pro is having > overheating problems I believe (get black screen after 30 minutes of > gaming but gaming continues on) even though the case is well ventilated. > The card even has one of those Arctic Coolers on it. Has that "black out" > syndrome I hear Radeons. > > Price is a driver my decision. So I'm looking at the 6800XT, 7600GS, and > X800 Pro. The first two are available at around $110 after current > rebates and discounts. The later takes more time to find. I really don't > want to spend more than $130 after rebates and S/H. > > Appreciate your comments on these boards and how they compare when running > at 1024x768x16 or 32 for BF2, SW Empire at War, COD 2, Rome Total War, and > SW Battlefront 2. > > BigSky > > |