Algebra Rizing
in [Lisp]
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From: Erwin Moller on 6 Jul 2010 04:45 Kenneth Tilton schreef: > Stefan Weiss wrote: >> On 05/07/10 22:35, Kenneth Tilton wrote: >>> Erwin Moller wrote: >>>> You credit yourself too much. >> [...] >>> I suppose. I happened to be watching and saw all these key events >>> coming in on a math widget and they were all "x" so I figured someone >>> was just tryign to break the app by holding down the x key, and then >>> it turned into a stream of a hundred x's at a time. It looked >>> specific to the app, but what do I know? Maybe that is how bots work, >>> look for something that responds and then pound it. It does sound >>> like fun. >> >> And that after you've been told a number of times that sending HTTP >> requests for every single key event is a bad idea. Your application got >> itself DoS'ed by a single user who held down the "x" key too long, >> possibly even by accident, but you still managed to blame it on the >> group. Congratulations. >> >> Your "solution" for the client side was to not look at the requests. >> Maybe your server will feel better if you don't watch the logs? >> >> > > In summary you and the other JS library haters now find yourselves > sitting around rejoicing in an obviously hard-working programmer running > into occasional difficulties. You might want to retrace your steps to > find where you went wrong. It's prolly the hate, tho. > > kt > Kenny, You don't listen/read very well, and thus you won't learn. That is really your loss, Kenny. People in here warned you that sending a xmlhttprequest on each keystroke is a very bad idea (latency issues, but also firing up a process on the server on each keystroke). But you can only respond with 'lib haters!'. When a police officer stops you when you drive your Ferrari at 150 miles/hour through the city centre, you respond: "You all just hate Ferrari and are jealous I have one!". I hope not. But that is how you act in here. Most people in here responded to your posting without the intention to irritate you, they wanted to help you, but all you gave back were insults and wisecracks. Last thing: Those 'lib haters' as you call them, didn't it occur to you they maybe have a valid reason for that? You are so damned convinced you are right that it is impossible for you to have an objective opinion about the matter. Erwin Moller PS: If you respond like a baboon again I promise I will never bother you again. -- "There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." -- C.A.R. Hoare
From: Kenneth Tilton on 6 Jul 2010 06:59 Erwin Moller wrote: > Kenneth Tilton schreef: >> Stefan Weiss wrote: >>> On 05/07/10 22:35, Kenneth Tilton wrote: >>>> Erwin Moller wrote: >>>>> You credit yourself too much. >>> [...] >>>> I suppose. I happened to be watching and saw all these key events >>>> coming in on a math widget and they were all "x" so I figured >>>> someone was just tryign to break the app by holding down the x key, >>>> and then it turned into a stream of a hundred x's at a time. It >>>> looked specific to the app, but what do I know? Maybe that is how >>>> bots work, look for something that responds and then pound it. It >>>> does sound like fun. >>> >>> And that after you've been told a number of times that sending HTTP >>> requests for every single key event is a bad idea. Your application got >>> itself DoS'ed by a single user who held down the "x" key too long, >>> possibly even by accident, but you still managed to blame it on the >>> group. Congratulations. >>> >>> Your "solution" for the client side was to not look at the requests. >>> Maybe your server will feel better if you don't watch the logs? >>> >>> >> >> In summary you and the other JS library haters now find yourselves >> sitting around rejoicing in an obviously hard-working programmer >> running into occasional difficulties. You might want to retrace your >> steps to find where you went wrong. It's prolly the hate, tho. >> >> kt >> > > Kenny, > > You don't listen/read very well, and thus you won't learn. > That is really your loss, Kenny. > > People in here warned you that sending a xmlhttprequest on each > keystroke is a very bad idea (latency issues, but also firing up a > process on the server on each keystroke). > > But you can only respond with 'lib haters!'. > > When a police officer stops you when you drive your Ferrari at 150 > miles/hour through the city centre, you respond: "You all just hate > Ferrari and are jealous I have one!". > I hope not. > But that is how you act in here. > > Most people in here responded to your posting without the intention to > irritate you, they wanted to help you, but all you gave back were > insults and wisecracks. > > Last thing: Those 'lib haters' as you call them, didn't it occur to you > they maybe have a valid reason for that? > You are so damned convinced you are right that it is impossible for you > to have an objective opinion about the matter. > > Erwin Moller > > PS: If you respond like a baboon again I promise I will never bother you > again. > > What are you talking about? I saw a stream of a hundred or so x's come in faster than anyone can type. Then there was a pause and and an equally fast stream of requests came in, each with a 100 x's and a hundred something-else's. This went on non-stop for the 20s or so it took to switch screens and kill the server. And you think that is the same as a person actually doing Algebra typing one character at a time? That is what this group warned me would not work? oooh-oooh-ah-ahh-eeep!!!! kt -- http://www.stuckonalgebra.com "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." Macworld
From: Kenneth Tilton on 6 Jul 2010 07:32
by the way... > Erwin Moller wrote: >> People in here warned you that sending a xmlhttprequest on each >> keystroke is a very bad idea (latency issues, but also firing up a >> process on the server on each keystroke). What makes you think the server fires up a (lightweight) process on each request? And what makes it necessarily a very bad idea if requests and responses are very small and the server keeps connections open? So what do folks here recommend in the way of software that simulates real-world loads, so we can put some numbers on this. I /am/ curious about how many users one AWS instance will support. otoh, until I have real students (vs. antagonistic hairless apes) using the software) I am not sure how I would specify a typical user's pattern of interaction. I know you all /want/ me to fail (witness your mistaken glee over either a DoS attack or a bug in my code that caused The Flight of the Xes), but if you do not mind I'll optimize according to actual performance, not imagined. We programmers tend to guess badly on performance. kt -- http://www.stuckonalgebra.com "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." Macworld |