All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
in [Digital Cameras]
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From: Bruce on 23 Jul 2010 16:53 On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington" <nobody(a)homehere.net> wrote: > >"Bruce" <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >news:8uoi469niqu76otbqvr0u8l74a4eojbpc5(a)4ax.com... >> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>>Canon/Nikon 'stranglehold' >>> >>>Wells added: 'Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung (with a 20% >>>combined share of interchangeable lens camera shipments in 2009) are >>>expected to promote this segment heavily in 2010, particularly at the >>>Photokina show in September, in the run-up to the important fourth >>>quarter period. >> >> >> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs >> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the >> Samsung NX-10. >> >> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They >> fell a very long way short of their target. >> >> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a >> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in >> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon >> and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space >> across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has >> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops. >> >> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still >> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't >> sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means >> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come. >> >> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony >> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are >> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up >> from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR >> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced. >> >> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will >> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290 >> and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has >> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the >> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner >> Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A >> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse. >> >> The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when. > >That's very interesting, and unfortunate. > >Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales. >They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division, >operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last year), >less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most analyst >opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at >the recent peak in March. >
From: Bruce on 23 Jul 2010 17:23 On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington" <nobody(a)homehere.net> wrote: >"Bruce" <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >news:8uoi469niqu76otbqvr0u8l74a4eojbpc5(a)4ax.com... >> >> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs >> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the >> Samsung NX-10. >> >> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They >> fell a very long way short of their target. >> >> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a >> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in >> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon >> and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space >> across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has >> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops. >> >> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still >> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't >> sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means >> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come. >> >> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony >> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are >> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up >> from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR >> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced. >> >> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will >> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290 >> and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has >> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the >> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner >> Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A >> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse. >> >> The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when. > >That's very interesting, and unfortunate. > >Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales. >They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division, >operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last year), >less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most analyst >opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at >the recent peak in March. Thanks Neil, I hadn't realised that other parts of Sony were having such problems. I take a keen interest in Sony Alpha because I have a good friend who owns a photo store that was a Minolta Professional Dealer for many years and now sells (or rather, doesn't sell) Sony Alpha, plus several friends who worked for Konica Minolta UK and lost their jobs when Sony took over. They are all still working in the photo field, but had to find new jobs at short notice. My dealer friend is also a Minolta/Alpha user but is intensely frustrated with the Alpha products that he has great difficulty selling. As an enthusiast, it grieves him terribly to see a lacklustre product range that just doesn't sell against Nikon, Canon and Pentax. He tells me that Sony has been reduced to taking back unsold stocks of several Minolta-made lenses and 'remanufacturing' them with Sony badges to try to get them to sell. This isn't just a question of sticking on a Sony badge. In some cases, things like barrels and bezels have to be changed. It must be an embarrassment that these lenses haven't sold, a full four and a half years after Konica Minolta called a halt to manufacture, and a whole seven and a half years since Minolta and Konica merged! An example is the "Sony" 135mm STF which is just a rebranded version of a Minolta lens that didn't sell. http://www.the135stf.net/ The way Sony dealt with former Konica Minolta UK employees was shameful. There was a lot of expertise in supporting and servicing Konica Minolta products and all that was lost. I first found out about this when I was trying to get spare parts for my Konica Hexar RF, a 35mm rangefinder camera with the M bayonet mount. It is a gem of a camera, one that is all the Leica M7 should have been, but wasn't: Robust, reliable, with a 1/4000 sec* fastest shutter speed - invaluable with f/1.4 or f/1.0 (or even f/0.95 lenses) in daylight - this is in my opinion the best M rangefinder body that Leica never made. Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just dumped them! They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners could no longer obtain spares. Sony should have sold on the parts to another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but Sony just ignored them. *Leica M7 and MP have a claimed fastest shutter speed of 1/1000 sec but, as with all Leica M bodies since the M3, most struggle to provide anything faster than 1/700 sec at that shutter speed setting.
From: Peter on 23 Jul 2010 17:22 "Bruce" <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:7vvj46hgv9ui5cl0hsmakk2585fi05312o(a)4ax.com... > On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:14:18 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >>On Jul 23, 5:40 am, Bruce <docnews2...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No >>> claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the >>> UK market. None. >>> >>> The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is >>> no comparable retail data available from US sources. >> >>You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other >>markets, that it stands alone? > > > I do know from historic data that purchasing trends in the UK differed > greatly from the USA, Japan and countries in mainland Europe in the > past. But that data is no longer publicly available. > > In the absence of any published data, it is now impossible to compare, > so your question cannot be answered. > > Hint! such data for the US is available. www.marketresearch.com (a paid site) or dig it out. Starting point: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/consumer/north-american-consumer-sentiment-improves-but-spending-still-weak/ or http://www.sba.gov/advo/research/rs240tot.pdf or http://www.uschamber.com/issues/index/regulatory/dataaccess.htm or http://www.bls.gov/ As for Canada at lest as of August 2008: http://www.corostrandberg.com/pdfs/SPN-IC-SustainabilityPurchasingTrendsUpdated%20Paper%20082.pdf Yup! you may have to dig out the necessary data yourself, or pay for it. the data is available. If the answer is important to you, go for it. -- Peter
From: Neil Harrington on 23 Jul 2010 17:56 "Bruce" <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:ja0k4699bd93krho2o1ii9v8idcpveabfn(a)4ax.com... > On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington" > <nobody(a)homehere.net> wrote: >>"Bruce" <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>news:8uoi469niqu76otbqvr0u8l74a4eojbpc5(a)4ax.com... >>> >>> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs >>> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the >>> Samsung NX-10. >>> >>> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They >>> fell a very long way short of their target. >>> >>> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a >>> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in >>> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon >>> and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space >>> across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has >>> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops. >>> >>> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still >>> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't >>> sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means >>> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come. >>> >>> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony >>> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are >>> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up >>> from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR >>> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced. >>> >>> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will >>> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290 >>> and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has >>> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the >>> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner >>> Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A >>> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse. >>> >>> The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when. >> >>That's very interesting, and unfortunate. >> >>Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales. >>They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division, >>operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last >>year), >>less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most >>analyst >>opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at >>the recent peak in March. > > > Thanks Neil, I hadn't realised that other parts of Sony were having > such problems. > > I take a keen interest in Sony Alpha because I have a good friend who > owns a photo store that was a Minolta Professional Dealer for many > years and now sells (or rather, doesn't sell) Sony Alpha, plus several > friends who worked for Konica Minolta UK and lost their jobs when Sony > took over. They are all still working in the photo field, but had to > find new jobs at short notice. > > My dealer friend is also a Minolta/Alpha user but is intensely > frustrated with the Alpha products that he has great difficulty > selling. As an enthusiast, it grieves him terribly to see a > lacklustre product range that just doesn't sell against Nikon, Canon > and Pentax. As a long-time Minolta enthusiast I certainly sympathize with your friend. I had owned several brands of screw-mount SLRs before switching to Minolta about 1975, with their great (for that time) XE-7 model. That's what the U.S. model designation was, not sure what it was in the UK. I really loved the Minolta brand, owned quite a few MD-mount models and then started with Maxxum (Dynax) a year or so after they were introduced. I still have several Minolta 35s, and stayed with the brand when they moved into digital. My last was the Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D, but shortly after buying that one, after they sold the camera business to Sony, I switched to Nikon. Still have a soft spot for Minoltas though, under any brand name. > > He tells me that Sony has been reduced to taking back unsold stocks of > several Minolta-made lenses and 'remanufacturing' them with Sony > badges to try to get them to sell. This isn't just a question of > sticking on a Sony badge. In some cases, things like barrels and > bezels have to be changed. It must be an embarrassment that these > lenses haven't sold, a full four and a half years after Konica Minolta > called a halt to manufacture, and a whole seven and a half years since > Minolta and Konica merged! > > An example is the "Sony" 135mm STF which is just a rebranded version > of a Minolta lens that didn't sell. > > http://www.the135stf.net/ I remember that one. Pretty much a specialty item, and very expensive as I recall. > > The way Sony dealt with former Konica Minolta UK employees was > shameful. There was a lot of expertise in supporting and servicing > Konica Minolta products and all that was lost. > > I first found out about this when I was trying to get spare parts for > my Konica Hexar RF, a 35mm rangefinder camera with the M bayonet > mount. It is a gem of a camera, one that is all the Leica M7 should > have been, but wasn't: Robust, reliable, with a 1/4000 sec* fastest > shutter speed - invaluable with f/1.4 or f/1.0 (or even f/0.95 lenses) > in daylight - this is in my opinion the best M rangefinder body that > Leica never made. I remember the Konica Hexar and was very tempted to buy one back in the day. It was a little out of my price range at that time. I never realized there were such exotic lenses for it as that, though! I think it was always sold with the f/2 lens in the U.S. And I never knew of the Leica connection, either. Very interesting. > > Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare > parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just > dumped them! They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners > could no longer obtain spares. Sony should have sold on the parts to > another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but > Sony just ignored them. Incredible! That is just horrible. Horrible. > > > *Leica M7 and MP have a claimed fastest shutter speed of 1/1000 sec > but, as with all Leica M bodies since the M3, most struggle to provide > anything faster than 1/700 sec at that shutter speed setting. >
From: RichA on 23 Jul 2010 18:11
On Jul 23, 5:56 pm, "Neil Harrington" <nob...(a)homehere.net> wrote: > "Bruce" <docnews2...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:ja0k4699bd93krho2o1ii9v8idcpveabfn(a)4ax.com... > > > > > On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington" > > <nob...(a)homehere.net> wrote: > >>"Bruce" <docnews2...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >>news:8uoi469niqu76otbqvr0u8l74a4eojbpc5(a)4ax.com... > > >>> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs > >>> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the > >>> Samsung NX-10. > > >>> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They > >>> fell a very long way short of their target. > > >>> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a > >>> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in > >>> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon > >>> and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space > >>> across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has > >>> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops. > > >>> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still > >>> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't > >>> sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means > >>> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come. > > >>> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony > >>> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are > >>> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up > >>> from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR > >>> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced. > > >>> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will > >>> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290 > >>> and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has > >>> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the > >>> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner > >>> Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A > >>> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse. > > >>> The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when. > > >>That's very interesting, and unfortunate. > > >>Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales. > >>They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division, > >>operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last > >>year), > >>less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most > >>analyst > >>opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at > >>the recent peak in March. > > > Thanks Neil, I hadn't realised that other parts of Sony were having > > such problems. > > > I take a keen interest in Sony Alpha because I have a good friend who > > owns a photo store that was a Minolta Professional Dealer for many > > years and now sells (or rather, doesn't sell) Sony Alpha, plus several > > friends who worked for Konica Minolta UK and lost their jobs when Sony > > took over. They are all still working in the photo field, but had to > > find new jobs at short notice. > > > My dealer friend is also a Minolta/Alpha user but is intensely > > frustrated with the Alpha products that he has great difficulty > > selling. As an enthusiast, it grieves him terribly to see a > > lacklustre product range that just doesn't sell against Nikon, Canon > > and Pentax. > > As a long-time Minolta enthusiast I certainly sympathize with your friend.. I > had owned several brands of screw-mount SLRs before switching to Minolta > about 1975, with their great (for that time) XE-7 model. That's what the > U.S. model designation was, not sure what it was in the UK. I really loved > the Minolta brand, owned quite a few MD-mount models and then started with > Maxxum (Dynax) a year or so after they were introduced. I still have several > Minolta 35s, and stayed with the brand when they moved into digital. My last > was the Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D, but shortly after buying that one, after > they sold the camera business to Sony, I switched to Nikon. Still have a > soft spot for Minoltas though, under any brand name. > > > > > He tells me that Sony has been reduced to taking back unsold stocks of > > several Minolta-made lenses and 'remanufacturing' them with Sony > > badges to try to get them to sell. This isn't just a question of > > sticking on a Sony badge. In some cases, things like barrels and > > bezels have to be changed. It must be an embarrassment that these > > lenses haven't sold, a full four and a half years after Konica Minolta > > called a halt to manufacture, and a whole seven and a half years since > > Minolta and Konica merged! > > > An example is the "Sony" 135mm STF which is just a rebranded version > > of a Minolta lens that didn't sell. > > >http://www.the135stf.net/ > > I remember that one. Pretty much a specialty item, and very expensive as I > recall. > > > > > The way Sony dealt with former Konica Minolta UK employees was > > shameful. There was a lot of expertise in supporting and servicing > > Konica Minolta products and all that was lost. > > > I first found out about this when I was trying to get spare parts for > > my Konica Hexar RF, a 35mm rangefinder camera with the M bayonet > > mount. It is a gem of a camera, one that is all the Leica M7 should > > have been, but wasn't: Robust, reliable, with a 1/4000 sec* fastest > > shutter speed - invaluable with f/1.4 or f/1.0 (or even f/0.95 lenses) > > in daylight - this is in my opinion the best M rangefinder body that > > Leica never made. > > I remember the Konica Hexar and was very tempted to buy one back in the day. > It was a little out of my price range at that time. I never realized there > were such exotic lenses for it as that, though! I think it was always sold > with the f/2 lens in the U.S. And I never knew of the Leica connection, > either. Very interesting. > > > > > Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare > > parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just > > dumped them! They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners > > could no longer obtain spares. Sony should have sold on the parts to > > another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but > > Sony just ignored them. > > Incredible! That is just horrible. Horrible. > > > > > *Leica M7 and MP have a claimed fastest shutter speed of 1/1000 sec > > but, as with all Leica M bodies since the M3, most struggle to provide > > anything faster than 1/700 sec at that shutter speed setting. Sony is a disposable electronic's company, not a fine camera company. Still, I don't really want to see Nikon and Canon get an even a larger combined market share. |