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From: mayayana on 13 Jan 2009 13:54 > > At the other extreme, > > VBScript can do a remarkable range of things, > > taking advantage of COM components and providing > > a GUI through HTAs. That might be more than > > adequate for many people. Maybe the best help > > would just be to help your friends navigate the > > confusing landscape so that they can discover what > > really appeals to them. > > Ewww... If your going to suggest a scripting language, how 'bout something a > little more modern and cross platform - such as Python. It can do all of > that, and more. > Ewww? The question was about a form of Basic where code could be shared for writing on Windows. VBS is very similar to VB and very COM-friendly. And it's well-suited to automating IE, MS Word, etc. In that sense it's very handy for "power users" who may not want to get into programming. > > .NET provides a lot of prebuilt classes - no doubt. But, how does that > shelter you from knowing how windows works? The framework provides a lot of > basics, but you quickly have to move outside the framework for more advanced > stuff. > Hmm. Quickly? One wonders what the framework is for -- that 88 MB of bloat that .Net software wants to dump onto a system -- if it "quickly" becomes inadequate. (But I already know the DotNettiac answer to that: "These days 88 MB is nothing. And hard disks are cheaper than ever!" )
From: Tom Shelton on 13 Jan 2009 14:22 On 2009-01-13, mayayana <mayaXXyana(a)rcXXn.com> wrote: >> > At the other extreme, >> > VBScript can do a remarkable range of things, >> > taking advantage of COM components and providing >> > a GUI through HTAs. That might be more than >> > adequate for many people. Maybe the best help >> > would just be to help your friends navigate the >> > confusing landscape so that they can discover what >> > really appeals to them. >> >> Ewww... If your going to suggest a scripting language, how 'bout something > a >> little more modern and cross platform - such as Python. It can do all of >> that, and more. >> > > Ewww? The question was about a form of > Basic where code could be shared for writing > on Windows. Hmmm... Since the OP mentioned Delphi in his list, it seems kind of implied that a response not be a form of BASIC. > VBS is very similar to VB and very > COM-friendly. Yes - it is similar to VB, I'll give you that. But, you can use com objects from Python as well. > And it's well-suited to automating > IE, MS Word, etc. In that sense it's very handy > for "power users" who may not want to get into > programming. > So, is Python. >> >> .NET provides a lot of prebuilt classes - no doubt. But, how does that >> shelter you from knowing how windows works? The framework provides a lot > of >> basics, but you quickly have to move outside the framework for more > advanced >> stuff. >> > > Hmm. Quickly? > One wonders what the framework is for You see I said for advanced stuff right? No framework can be all things to all people. Though, the framework does take care of a lot of plumbing - so even when you have to step out, it's still easier and far superior to the mechanisms provided by VB.CLASSIC - or did you miss the part of my post where I enumerated a few of advanced api calling capabilities of .NET vs VB.CLASSIC? > -- that 88 MB of bloat that .Net software wants > to dump onto a system -- if it "quickly" becomes > inadequate. (But I already know the DotNettiac > answer to that: "These days 88 MB is nothing. And > hard disks are cheaper than ever!" ) Well, on most modern machines that is exactly true - especially as you add more applications because that disk cost is then amoratized over the number of applications using it. Beyond that, you apparently haven't heard of this: http://windowsclient.net/wpf/wpf35/wpf-intro-client-profile.aspx -- Tom Shelton
From: Schmidt on 13 Jan 2009 14:17 "mayayana" <mayaXXyana(a)rcXXn.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:%23TGS%23radJHA.5412(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > In 2010 also the Wine-support should be even more > > matured, so you should be able to run nearly everything > > which currently works on your Win98-install without > > problems directly on Linux, without any VMs (since > > I know, you don't like them ;-)). > > > > Woops. I guess it means that one has become a curmudgeon > when others know all of one's complaints without needing > to voice them. :) <g> > Two years ago I installed Suse10 ... Then you've started with the "worst distro" of this time. (Suse 10 was admittedly a really bad release, known even in the Suse-community - e.g. the new OpenSuse releases are back to old "quality-standards" now). > ... But I'll try to keep an open mind and try a new Linux > update one of these days. My tests with Wine 2 years > ago were promising. Nothing ran perfectly, but most > things ran "usably". Two years are a long time in IT - and especially in the fast moving OpenSource-scene (at least in the prospering projects as the Linux-Kernel and also Wine, which both have constantly increasing "commit-counts"). I'd recommend (since you are a developer) a Debian- based Distro (as e.g. my favourite one: Sidux.com) - or if you want an even larger community- or forum-activity, then there's of course Ubuntu (also Debian-based, both Distros offer one of the nicest packet-managers for software-updates/upgrades over internet, including kernel-replacements without any problems by a simple commandline-tool, called 'apt'). Olaf
From: mayayana on 13 Jan 2009 14:32 Thanks for that info. I guess it is about time that I take another look at Linux. > > > In 2010 also the Wine-support should be even more > > > matured, so you should be able to run nearly everything > > > which currently works on your Win98-install without > > > problems directly on Linux, without any VMs (since > > > I know, you don't like them ;-)). > > > > > > > Woops. I guess it means that one has become a curmudgeon > > when others know all of one's complaints without needing > > to voice them. :) > <g> > > > Two years ago I installed Suse10 ... > Then you've started with the "worst distro" of this time. > (Suse 10 was admittedly a really bad release, known > even in the Suse-community - e.g. the new OpenSuse > releases are back to old "quality-standards" now). > > > ... But I'll try to keep an open mind and try a new Linux > > update one of these days. My tests with Wine 2 years > > ago were promising. Nothing ran perfectly, but most > > things ran "usably". > Two years are a long time in IT - and especially in the > fast moving OpenSource-scene (at least in the prospering > projects as the Linux-Kernel and also Wine, which both > have constantly increasing "commit-counts"). > > I'd recommend (since you are a developer) a Debian- > based Distro (as e.g. my favourite one: Sidux.com) - or > if you want an even larger community- or forum-activity, > then there's of course Ubuntu (also Debian-based, both > Distros offer one of the nicest packet-managers for > software-updates/upgrades over internet, including > kernel-replacements without any problems by a > simple commandline-tool, called 'apt'). > > Olaf > >
From: Schmidt on 13 Jan 2009 14:30
"Tom Shelton" <tom_shelton(a)comcastXXXXXXX.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:%23iBJyjadJHA.4492(a)TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Ewww... If your going to suggest a scripting language, > how 'bout something a little more modern and cross > platform - such as Python. It can do all of that, > and more. Yep, that's a nice suggestion, although the syntax is - well ... not VB-compatible <g>. > > I don't think any other "RAD" tool has that ability, > > other than VC6. > But, can't take advantage of 64-bit multicore processors. VB6 can take advantage of multicore-processors of course - possible with pretty simple ActiveX-Exe-Threading. And regarding the 64Bit - as long as your selfwritten VB-Apps don't need more than 3GByte RAM for themselfes - they should work without problems not only on 64Bit-Processors which "drive" a 32Bit- OS (which nowadays is often the default yet), but also on 64Bit-processors which drive a 64Bit-OS (over the appropriate 64-32Bit-layers, which of course also allow 32Bit-threading from within 32Bit-processes, so the use of "64Bit-MultiCores" is no problem). > VB.CLASSIC has an increasingly limited lifespan... > At least in the enterprise. Maybe in the real large ones - in the many smaller firms I see a much longer lifespan for the typical "VB6-branch- solutions". > And for the record - VB.NET (actually .NET in general) > provides even better support, and you can actually call > 64-bit api's as well. Why would I want to call a 64Bit-API from my 32Bit- Application, if the 32Bit-API-pendant does the same? ;-) > Don't believe me? I can name a number of things that > .NET makes easier when dealing with native calls: > > 1. Direct support for Unicode API's. To change a "Byval As String" to "Byval As Long" in the API-Declaration is really not a big deal - and then there are Typelibs for direct support of the W-Functions, without the need to use StrPtr(SomeString) in the Call, W-APIs in a Typelib support direct BString-Passing (avoiding VBs indirect ANSI-Conversion-automatisms). > 2. Direct support for calling functions that use Unions IIRC this should also be doable with appropriate TypeLib-Defines. > 3. Direct support for both __stdcall and __cdecl calling > conventions Ok, here you got me - until now I've not figured out, how to enable that in a VB-Typelib-Declaration. But C(++)-recompiling (at least the interesting enough OpenSource-Libs) with a StdCall-Convention is not a big deal. > 4. Support for overloading function calls. Yep - that's nice - but Optional Params do well for me so far. > And what about subclassing a win proc? > In .NET it's safe and supported in the IDE. IIRC on PSC there are tools, which support IDE-safe subclassing for VB6 in the meantime - if encapsulated in a little AX-Dll, then their usage should be even more easy. > Especially when it comes to more advanced techniques as > multi-threading, etc. Oh c'mon Tom - not again these threading-topics - thought we had already discussed this - e.g. P. Clement has not shown until now a .NET-example which does the same as this VB6-one. www.datenhaus.de/Downloads/MandelbrotThreaded.zip And IIRC, you have participated in the appropriate thread some month's ago too. Olaf |