An Embarrassing Question for Relativists
in [Relativity]
|
Prev: What's your guys' take on Moving Dimensions Theory? Vs. String Theory / LQG?
Next: Oldest Object In Universe - Massive Star Exploding - Indicates Big Bang Not Its Origin
From: Inertial on 28 Oct 2009 18:00 "Henry Wilson DSc." <HW@..> wrote in message news:2c9he5pgesj73fcg66nndlpbrmal5s2iv2(a)4ax.com... The only one feeling embarrassment should be you Lets all have a look at how Henry is going to embarrass himself this time and show once again he doesn't understand the physics he claims to ... > Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is > connected to > O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1. Do you mean physically connected by some material object .. like a being on a train? (SR loves trains) > O1----------------------------------------------------S1 > v<- O2---------------------------------------S2 > > According to SR, > > light from S1 moves at c towards O1. Yes .. although the closing speed between light O1 is frame dependent. It is only c in the frame of S1 and O1 > Light from S2 moves at c towards O2. Yes .. although the closing speed between light O2 is frame dependent. It is only c in the frame of S2 and O2 > In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c. In the frame of S2 and O2, but not in the frame of S1 and O1. > However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v. In the frame of S1 and O1, but not in the frame of S2 and O2. The closing speed between light and an object (in the objects rest frame) is always c Similarly the separating speed between light and its source (in the source's rest frame) is always c > So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 at > different speeds. Only one per frame .. you are talking about two different observers calculating the closing speed, as well as two different rays of light. Of course, there are an infinite number of closing speeds between light and some given object. One speed in each frame of reference > How can that happen? Because light always has a speed of c in every frame of reference .. but the object O2 has different speeds in each frame of reference. As closing speed is just a vector addition/subtraction, that means you'll get a different closing speed in each frame. If you were as educated as you pretend to be, you'd know all this and not advertise your ignorance as you continue to do.
From: Inertial on 28 Oct 2009 21:15 "Henry Wilson DSc." <HW@..> wrote in message news:4sphe5568i08tb619aug027tn20kom4m2j(a)4ax.com... > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:34:23 -0700 (PDT), Bruce Richmond > <bsr3997(a)my-deja.com> > wrote: > >>On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW@..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote: >>> Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is >>> connected to >>> O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1. >>> >>> O1----------------------------------------------------S1 >>> v<- O2---------------------------------------S2 >>> >>> According to SR, >>> >>> light from S1 moves at c towards O1. >>> >>> Light from S2 moves at c towards O2. >>> In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c. >>> >>> However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v. >>> >>> So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 >>> at >>> different speeds. How can that happen? >> >>You are trying to make measurements in both frames using the time >>coordinates from just one system. Give each frame its own coordinate >>system and the problem goes away. > > Hardly. > > The two beams have different closing speeds as calculated by the same > observer. Wrong. you stated closing speed form two different observers .. S1 and S2 If you only consider one observer, you only get one closing speed for a given ray of light (and rays of light with the same direction wrt the object) and any given object.
From: rotchm on 28 Oct 2009 22:31 On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW@..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote: > Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to > O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1. > > O1----------------------------------------------------S1 > v<- O2---------------------------------------S2 > > According to SR, > > light from S1 moves at c towards O1. As measured by who? ( relative to which frame)? > Light from S2 moves at c towards O2. Wrt which observer ( frame)? > In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c. The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame? Oh, you mean the closing speed of the light from S2 and O2 wrt O2's frame. Ok, in that case its ( c - 0) wrt O2 = c. > However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v. The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame? You are unclear here. Anser that and you should find your answer/error.
From: rotchm on 29 Oct 2009 00:00 On Oct 28, 11:48 pm, HW@..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:31:34 -0700 (PDT), rotchm <rot...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW@..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote: > >> Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to > >> O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1. > > >> O1----------------------------------------------------S1 > >> v<- O2---------------------------------------S2 > > >> According to SR, > > >> light from S1 moves at c towards O1. > > >As measured by who? ( relative to which frame)? > > >> Light from S2 moves at c towards O2. > > >Wrt which observer ( frame)? > > >> In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c. > > >The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame? > >Oh, you mean the closing speed of the light from S2 and O2 wrt O2's > >frame. Ok, in that case its ( c - 0) wrt O2 = c. > > great, your brain cell finally fired... > > >> However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v. > > >The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame? You are > >unclear here. > >Anser that and you should find your answer/error. > > Read the other messages and stop stalling for time..... Dont be a coward by brushing off the question to other discussions. Answer it.
From: Inertial on 29 Oct 2009 00:18
"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW@..> wrote in message news:l24ie59iop5pfd5cv1iccj10kckgr18jdh(a)4ax.com... > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:31:34 -0700 (PDT), rotchm <rotchm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW@..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote: >>> Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is >>> connected to >>> O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1. >>> >>> O1----------------------------------------------------S1 >>> v<- O2---------------------------------------S2 >>> >>> According to SR, >>> >>> light from S1 moves at c towards O1. >> >> >>As measured by who? ( relative to which frame)? >> >> >>> Light from S2 moves at c towards O2. >> >> >>Wrt which observer ( frame)? >> >>> In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c. >> >>The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame? >>Oh, you mean the closing speed of the light from S2 and O2 wrt O2's >>frame. Ok, in that case its ( c - 0) wrt O2 = c. > > great, your brain cell finally fired... Not his fault that your original post was so poorly worded. >>> However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v. >> >> >>The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame? You are >>unclear here. >>Anser that and you should find your answer/error. > > Read the other messages and stop stalling for time..... Your problem has been answered .. you assertion of some inconsistency or contradiction is refuted. Try again crackpot. |