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From: Savageduck on 28 Jul 2010 06:04
On 2010-07-28 01:44:56 -0700, Vance <vance.lear(a)gmail.com> said:

> On Jul 27, 5:41�am, RichA <rander3...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/07/27/ansel.adams.discovery/index.htm...
>>
>> $10 to possibly $200M in value.
>
> What you have is a collection of very carefully exposed and processed
> negatives similar in that respect to what many of his contemporaries
> produced. It isn't until you add his skill and artistry in the
> darkroom that you have something special. To paraphrase Adams
> himself, he wasn't that great a photographer, but he was great in the
> darkroom. As things that can provide an insight into his development
> as an artist, they have a value over and above their value as
> negatives, but probably only a few as exemplars.
>
> Vance

Exactly.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

From: Savageduck on 28 Jul 2010 06:05
On 2010-07-28 02:10:20 -0700, Vance <vance.lear(a)gmail.com> said:

> On Jul 27, 1:58�pm, RichA <rander3...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 27, 11:27�am, Allen <all...(a)austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Savageduck wrote:
>>>> On 2010-07-27 07:56:48 -0700, Rich <rander3...(a)gmail.com> said:
>>
>>>>> On Jul 27, 10:41 am, Ryan McGinnis <digic...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>>>>>> On 7/27/2010 7:41 AM, RichA wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/07/27/ansel.adams.discovery/index.h
> tm...
>>
>>>>>>> $10 to possibly $200M in value.
>>
>>>>>> That's amazing -- though the art world's take on the value of these
>>>>>> kinds of things kinda boggles my mind. �$200M for glass plate neg
> atives
>>>>> ?
>>
>>>>> Unlike prints, negatives can duplicate perfectly the image over and
>>>>> over.
>>
>>>> Not quite. As valuable as those negatives might be, there is half of
> the
>>>> Adams creative process missing, the darkroom print work he did himsel
> f,
>>>> or supervised.
>>>> Without his print specific darkroom notes, you might be able to
>>>> replicate a close approximation of an Adams print from those negative
> s,
>>>> but you would not have an "Adams" print.
>>
>>> In case anyone still pays any attention to Rich, his post(answered well
>>> by Savageduck) should provide sufficient evidence of his total
>>> ignorance/idiocy about photography.
>>> Allen
>>
>> � �Adams prints were being sold in the mid 1980's for thousands of
>> dollars and were made by his assistant. �If you think his artistic
>> talent can't be extracted from the negs, you are just an imbecile.- Hide
> quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> An assistant can produce a print UNDER the direction of the
> photographer in the form of notes, markedup prints, and feedback.
> Over 4 decades ago I spent 3 days in Yosemite with Adams in one of the
> workshops he gave. After learning how to make choices on exposure re
> the Zone System, which he just formalized, but didn't invent, it was
> time in the darkroom with our Type 45 P/N (if memory serves)
> Polaroids. When we produced something he would make suggestions on
> buring and dodging in some detail and explain why he would work this
> area one way and another area differently in terms of the viewers
> experience. It's there that you find what made Adams, well, Adams.
> Without that sensitivity to the viewers experience and knowing how to
> shape it with very subtle manipulations towards a clearly held vision
> of the final print you don't have an Adams print. That can be done
> under direction, but it isn't inherent or even implied in the
> negative. There is no extraction of the artistic intent possible
> anymore than you can tell what the final building will look like from
> the foundation.
>
> A good printer can take a negative and replicate an existing print,
> but that isn't even close to the same thing. A very, very good
> printer who has become really familiar with Adams' work can produce
> one in the style of Adams, but it is a producton of what would be
> typical for Adams and not necessarily what he would have done with the
> same negative.

....and again, exactly.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

From: Ryan McGinnis on 28 Jul 2010 10:10
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On 7/28/2010 4:27 AM, Outing Trolls is FUN! wrote:

> After having seen your tilted-building tourists' crapshots, it's obvious
> you've never been near any photography workshop in your life. Or if you
> have, you've done nothing but be a huge insult to anything they've ever
> done. Your results today are nothing but a huge embarrassment to anyone who
> might have ever tried to teach you anything. I've no doubt that even the
> author of some photography book would claim he never wrote it if you
> claimed to have read it, just to distance himself from anything you've ever
> produced.

Trolls used to have so much more talent than this!

- --
- -Ryan McGinnis
The BIG Storm Picture -- http://bigstormpicture.com
Vortex-2 image licensing at http://vortex-2.com
Getty: http://www.gettyimages.com/search/search.aspx?artist=Ryan+McGinnis

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From: Grimly Curmudgeon on 28 Jul 2010 10:13
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Gary Edstrom <GEdstrom(a)PacBell.Net>
saying something like:

>but the iconic
>photographer's representatives dismissed the claim as a fraud and said
>they're worthless.

Even if they are actually real - of course they would say that. The
Adams family are living off the old man and have been for years, so
don't want any rocking of that particular boat.
From: Outing Trolls is FUN! on 28 Jul 2010 10:28
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:10:06 -0500, Ryan McGinnis <digicana(a)gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 7/28/2010 4:27 AM, Outing Trolls is FUN! wrote:
>
>> After having seen your tilted-building tourists' crapshots, it's obvious
>> you've never been near any photography workshop in your life. Or if you
>> have, you've done nothing but be a huge insult to anything they've ever
>> done. Your results today are nothing but a huge embarrassment to anyone who
>> might have ever tried to teach you anything. I've no doubt that even the
>> author of some photography book would claim he never wrote it if you
>> claimed to have read it, just to distance himself from anything you've ever
>> produced.
>
>Trolls used to have so much more talent than this!

It depends on who you are calling a troll. I know for a fact that Vance is
not only a troll but an image thieving troll. Everyone in this newsgroup
witnessed his theft of others' photography that he tried to pass off as his
own. He even admitted it.

Now, are YOU another troll?

Think carefully about which side you are taking.



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