Any insight for Automotive Sensor Inputs/ Front-End Protection.
in [Design]
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From: Joerg on 28 Apr 2010 20:50 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:11:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Jim Thompson wrote: > [snip] >>> I was designing for aerospace whilst you were still in knickers :-) >>> >>> Check the facts before you burp. >>> >> Then you should be intimately familiar with DO160. Yet you haven't >> answered the question above, how you would solve that situation for 15c >> or less without a TVS. >> >> How did the Romans say? Hic Rhodos, hic salta. > > That'd be _way_ after my time in aerospace. > The Romans? Man, you _are_ old :-) Ok, then: The tougher category is 80V for 100msec, followed by 48V for one second. Three times at 10sec intervals. Depending on what it is the circuit can pause, but ideally it should just continue to work through these episodes. Throw in 600V spikes as well but they are brief and thus easy. So? Remember, you've got 15 pennies to play with, no more. And if you use lots of parts then you are charged a pick-and-place tax. > What is it you have running in any space vehicle? > One electronic board but not at liberty to tell. > What is it you have running in any car electronics? > Nothing, assuming big rigs don't count here. However, some of my 12V designs are allowed to be run on vehicles and on ships (and do so nicely). > Perhaps you have something in an implant. I do. > I've got tons designs of intra-body stuff. But all this doesn't matter. You said using TVS is like making simple problems difficult so let's not deviate here. How do you solve the problem you snipped away, sans TVS, for less than 15c in parts? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Michael A. Terrell on 28 Apr 2010 21:19 Jim Thompson wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:11:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > > >Jim Thompson wrote: > [snip] > >> > >> I was designing for aerospace whilst you were still in knickers :-) > >> > >> Check the facts before you burp. > >> > > > >Then you should be intimately familiar with DO160. Yet you haven't > >answered the question above, how you would solve that situation for 15c > >or less without a TVS. > > > >How did the Romans say? Hic Rhodos, hic salta. > > That'd be _way_ after my time in aerospace. > > What is it you have running in any space vehicle? Broadband KU band communications system aboard the ISS. > What is it you have running in any car electronics? > > Perhaps you have something in an implant. I do. > > ...Jim Thompson > -- > | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | > | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | > | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | > | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | > | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | > | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | > > The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
From: Jim Thompson on 28 Apr 2010 21:22 On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:50:17 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:11:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >> [snip] >>>> I was designing for aerospace whilst you were still in knickers :-) >>>> >>>> Check the facts before you burp. >>>> >>> Then you should be intimately familiar with DO160. Yet you haven't >>> answered the question above, how you would solve that situation for 15c >>> or less without a TVS. >>> >>> How did the Romans say? Hic Rhodos, hic salta. >> >> That'd be _way_ after my time in aerospace. >> > >The Romans? Man, you _are_ old :-) Yep. > >Ok, then: The tougher category is 80V for 100msec, followed by 48V for >one second. Three times at 10sec intervals. Depending on what it is the >circuit can pause, but ideally it should just continue to work through >these episodes. Throw in 600V spikes as well but they are brief and thus >easy. So? > >Remember, you've got 15 pennies to play with, no more. And if you use >lots of parts then you are charged a pick-and-place tax. I first encountered load dump around 1964. I'll not tell you how I solved it, I'll make you read my patents and see if you can discern how I did it... by clever circuit design... no TVS's... I don't even think they existed then :-) > > >> What is it you have running in any space vehicle? >> > >One electronic board but not at liberty to tell. > > >> What is it you have running in any car electronics? >> > >Nothing, assuming big rigs don't count here. However, some of my 12V >designs are allowed to be run on vehicles and on ships (and do so nicely). > > >> Perhaps you have something in an implant. I do. >> > >I've got tons designs of intra-body stuff. But all this doesn't matter. >You said using TVS is like making simple problems difficult so let's not >deviate here. How do you solve the problem you snipped away, sans TVS, >for less than 15c in parts? Clever design, read my patents and learn from a (very old) master :-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy
From: Joerg on 28 Apr 2010 21:26 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:50:17 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:11:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>> [snip] >>>>> I was designing for aerospace whilst you were still in knickers :-) >>>>> >>>>> Check the facts before you burp. >>>>> >>>> Then you should be intimately familiar with DO160. Yet you haven't >>>> answered the question above, how you would solve that situation for 15c >>>> or less without a TVS. >>>> >>>> How did the Romans say? Hic Rhodos, hic salta. >>> That'd be _way_ after my time in aerospace. >>> >> The Romans? Man, you _are_ old :-) > > Yep. > >> Ok, then: The tougher category is 80V for 100msec, followed by 48V for >> one second. Three times at 10sec intervals. Depending on what it is the >> circuit can pause, but ideally it should just continue to work through >> these episodes. Throw in 600V spikes as well but they are brief and thus >> easy. So? >> >> Remember, you've got 15 pennies to play with, no more. And if you use >> lots of parts then you are charged a pick-and-place tax. > > I first encountered load dump around 1964. I'll not tell you how I > solved it, I'll make you read my patents and see if you can discern > how I did it... by clever circuit design... no TVS's... I don't even > think they existed then :-) >> >>> What is it you have running in any space vehicle? >>> >> One electronic board but not at liberty to tell. >> >> >>> What is it you have running in any car electronics? >>> >> Nothing, assuming big rigs don't count here. However, some of my 12V >> designs are allowed to be run on vehicles and on ships (and do so nicely). >> >> >>> Perhaps you have something in an implant. I do. >>> >> I've got tons designs of intra-body stuff. But all this doesn't matter. >> You said using TVS is like making simple problems difficult so let's not >> deviate here. How do you solve the problem you snipped away, sans TVS, >> for less than 15c in parts? > > Clever design, read my patents and learn from a (very old) master :-) > Hey, you are deviating now. How would you solve the problem I presented? "Spend the next two days reading through umpteen patents" ain't the answer. The answer would be a circuit sketch. So? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Jim Thompson on 28 Apr 2010 21:33
On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 18:26:16 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:50:17 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:11:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> [snip] >>>>>> I was designing for aerospace whilst you were still in knickers :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Check the facts before you burp. >>>>>> >>>>> Then you should be intimately familiar with DO160. Yet you haven't >>>>> answered the question above, how you would solve that situation for 15c >>>>> or less without a TVS. >>>>> >>>>> How did the Romans say? Hic Rhodos, hic salta. >>>> That'd be _way_ after my time in aerospace. >>>> >>> The Romans? Man, you _are_ old :-) >> >> Yep. >> >>> Ok, then: The tougher category is 80V for 100msec, followed by 48V for >>> one second. Three times at 10sec intervals. Depending on what it is the >>> circuit can pause, but ideally it should just continue to work through >>> these episodes. Throw in 600V spikes as well but they are brief and thus >>> easy. So? >>> >>> Remember, you've got 15 pennies to play with, no more. And if you use >>> lots of parts then you are charged a pick-and-place tax. >> >> I first encountered load dump around 1964. I'll not tell you how I >> solved it, I'll make you read my patents and see if you can discern >> how I did it... by clever circuit design... no TVS's... I don't even >> think they existed then :-) >>> >>>> What is it you have running in any space vehicle? >>>> >>> One electronic board but not at liberty to tell. >>> >>> >>>> What is it you have running in any car electronics? >>>> >>> Nothing, assuming big rigs don't count here. However, some of my 12V >>> designs are allowed to be run on vehicles and on ships (and do so nicely). >>> >>> >>>> Perhaps you have something in an implant. I do. >>>> >>> I've got tons designs of intra-body stuff. But all this doesn't matter. >>> You said using TVS is like making simple problems difficult so let's not >>> deviate here. How do you solve the problem you snipped away, sans TVS, >>> for less than 15c in parts? >> >> Clever design, read my patents and learn from a (very old) master :-) >> > >Hey, you are deviating now. How would you solve the problem I presented? >"Spend the next two days reading through umpteen patents" ain't the >answer. The answer would be a circuit sketch. So? YOUR problem, as a designer, is that you must use off-the-shelf stuff that is not designed to withstand abuse, and ADD stuff to it to make it survive. MY problem, when designing a chip, is to make the circuit survive on its own, in the first place. Over the years I've become most clever at that skill :-) MY '60's designs survive load dump. Wonder how ?:-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy |