Anybody mind to translate this Felleisen quote from German to English
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From: Slobodan Blazeski on 24 Feb 2010 15:38 On Feb 24, 9:27 pm, Peter Herth <p.he...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Slobodan Blazeski schrieb: > > > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java können. Programmieren > > müssen wir denen halt noch beibringen. > >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html > > We are happy, that the graduates already know Java. We only have > to teach them programming then. > > Peter Great. Many thanks Bobi
From: Mirko on 25 Feb 2010 14:44 On Feb 24, 4:06 pm, t...(a)sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote: > Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java kŽönnen. Programmieren > > mŽüssen wir denen halt noch beibringen. > >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html > > Roughly: > > "We are happy that the graduates already know Java.  But we still need to > teach them programming." > > -- > Thomas A. Russ,  USC/Information Sciences Institute A neighbor of mine, back in Arizona, was a software engineer at Motorola. He cursed the recent computer science graduates that grew up on java. He claimed that they were totally useless, and that they had to be taught programming all over again.
From: Slobodan Blazeski on 26 Feb 2010 04:45 On Feb 25, 8:44 pm, Mirko <mirko.vuko...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 24, 4:06 pm, t...(a)sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote: > > > Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java kŽönnen. Programmieren > > > mŽüssen wir denen halt noch beibringen. > > >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html > > > Roughly: > > > "We are happy that the graduates already know Java.  But we still need to > > teach them programming." > > > -- > > Thomas A. Russ,  USC/Information Sciences Institute > > A neighbor of mine, back in Arizona, was a software engineer at > Motorola.  He cursed the recent computer science graduates that grew > up on java.  He claimed that they were totally useless, and that they > had to be taught programming all over again. The Perils of Java schools http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html Bobi
From: Tamas K Papp on 26 Feb 2010 05:36 On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:45:45 -0800, Slobodan Blazeski wrote: > On Feb 25, 8:44 pm, Mirko <mirko.vuko...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Feb 24, 4:06 pm, t...(a)sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote: >> >> > Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...(a)gmail.com> writes: >> > > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java kŽönnen. >> > > Programmieren mŽüssen wir denen halt noch beibringen. >> > >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html >> >> > Roughly: >> >> > "We are happy that the graduates already know Java. But we still >> > need to teach them programming." >> >> > -- >> > Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute >> >> A neighbor of mine, back in Arizona, was a software engineer at >> Motorola. He cursed the recent computer science graduates that grew up >> on java. He claimed that they were totally useless, and that they had >> to be taught programming all over again. > > The Perils of Java schools > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html Regarding that article: I don't think that C-style pointers are "hard" in the sense that, for example, advanced mathematics is hard. Pointers are easy to grasp, but messy to use. They just introduce gratuitous complexity. Why waste time on them while you can do something useful? Recursion has more merit, but it is not a holy grail either, it is just a particular style of programming, not even practical in all circumstances. The ingredient I find the most useful in a programming language is the ability for abstraction, especially syntactic abstraction. I seriously doubt that CS courses using Scheme put any emphasis on macros. So I guess that those kids are better off learning Java than doing contorted puzzles in Scheme. If I had to hire a programmer, I would look for skills in managing complexity that inevitably arises in large programs, instead of the ability to fiddle with pointers. Tamas
From: Slobodan Blazeski on 26 Feb 2010 06:51
On Feb 26, 11:36 am, Tamas K Papp <tkp...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:45:45 -0800, Slobodan Blazeski wrote: > > On Feb 25, 8:44 pm, Mirko <mirko.vuko...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Feb 24, 4:06 pm, t...(a)sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote: > > >> > Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> > > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java kŽönnen. > >> > > Programmieren mŽüssen wir denen halt noch beibringen. > >> > >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html > > >> > Roughly: > > >> > "We are happy that the graduates already know Java.  But we still > >> > need to teach them programming." > > >> > -- > >> > Thomas A. Russ,  USC/Information Sciences Institute > > >> A neighbor of mine, back in Arizona, was a software engineer at > >> Motorola.  He cursed the recent computer science graduates that grew up > >> on java.  He claimed that they were totally useless, and that they had > >> to be taught programming all over again. > > > The Perils of Java schools > >http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html > > Regarding that article: > > I don't think that C-style pointers are "hard" in the sense that, for > example, advanced mathematics is hard.  Pointers are easy to grasp, > but messy to use.  They just introduce gratuitous complexity.  Why > waste time on them while you can do something useful?  Recursion has > more merit, but it is not a holy grail either, it is just a particular > style of programming, not even practical in all circumstances. > > The ingredient I find the most useful in a programming language is the > ability for abstraction, especially syntactic abstraction.  I > seriously doubt that CS courses using Scheme put any emphasis on > macros.  So I guess that those kids are better off learning Java than > doing contorted puzzles in Scheme. Depending on the school. Schools in Macedonia should be banned by law to teach lisp/scheme. As I believe that they're paid by Sun in order to do the most damage they can by using recursion for everything, teaching some scheme in clump with few other languages in the single AI course they have. And if that is not bad enough using pen and paper would make everybody to become a lifetime parenthesis hater. > > If I had to hire a programmer, I would look for skills in managing > complexity that inevitably arises in large programs, instead of the > ability to fiddle with pointers. The problem is how would you know that candidate has a skills in managing complexity? How would you know that he or she has any skills at all without working with them for at least several weeks. As for me I really don't know of any other way that works. Recommendations are bullshit because any sane person will send the good ones and discard the bad. Asking for history depends a lot of the source, could you find someone that worked with so and so and even if you find one would you trust him. Only the code talks and for 99.99% you can't see any of their code. Not even snippets. There is many coders that could talk the talk but can't walk the walk. And as for the resumes I can't agree more with Dave Berry : resume is more than just a piece of paper ... it is a piece of paper with lies written all over it. Bobi |