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From: Jeff on 5 Aug 2010 09:16
On 8/4/2010 11:23 PM, D.Duck wrote:
>
>
> <Jeff(a)nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:i3cnuc$etn$2(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 8/2/2010 8:55 PM, D.Duck wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ray" <nospam(a)aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:C56dnQETIJWqzMrRnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)atmc.coop...
>>>> On 8/2/2010 6:26 PM, R. C. White wrote:
>>>>> Hi, Ray.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once upon a time, in a galaxy far away...
>>>>>
>>>>> I was an accountant. I kept books. BIG books! With pen and ink
>>>>> (remember
>>>>> those?). Each year's books for one company might weigh 10 pounds. A
>>>>> set of books
>>>>> for 20 years might outweigh me! To keep the physical labor of
>>>>> handling those
>>>>> books manageable, we would "close" the books each year-end. Then we
>>>>> would open a
>>>>> new, slimmer set of books for the new year. If we needed to look back
>>>>> in 1970 to
>>>>> see what had happened in 1965, we had to - first - FIND the 1965
>>>>> binders, and
>>>>> then carry one from the vault to our desk, open it - then take it
>>>>> back and get
>>>>> the other binder, the right one, we hoped... You get the picture.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I first started using Quicken - in 1990 - the situation was some
>>>>> better.
>>>>> But still, with those floppy diskettes and even with the humongous 5
>>>>> MB (yep, M!
>>>>> B) HDDs, it often took a good bit of disk shuffling to find
>>>>> information from
>>>>> just a few years ago. Especially if we continued the pen-and-ink
>>>>> model of
>>>>> closing our electronic books each year and creating an annual
>>>>> archive, deleting
>>>>> prior years' data from our working file to make room for the new
>>>>> year's
>>>>> transactions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, as disk drives grew, we could store 20 years' data in a
>>>>> single file
>>>>> using only a tiny fraction of a hard disk. Nowadays, many (most?) of
>>>>> us Quicken
>>>>> users like to keep ALL our financial history in our current working
>>>>> file. My
>>>>> Quicken file has data back to 1990; its total size is a little over
>>>>> 50 MB now.
>>>>> That's, let's see, 1.6667e-4 of that 300 GB HDD. (I don't read
>>>>> scientific
>>>>> notation very well, but that's a very small fraction!) Even with a
>>>>> dozen
>>>>> backups, there's plenty of room. So I don't feel a strong urge to
>>>>> remove enough
>>>>> data from the file to save disk space. And, I don't notice any
>>>>> slowdown in
>>>>> performance, sp that doesn't motivate me to shrink the file, either.
>>>>>
>>>>> What does motivate me - to keep the data intact and at hand - is the
>>>>> ability to
>>>>> look back and see that I paid $71.88 for the local phone company to
>>>>> install my
>>>>> telephone on November 13, 1990, including the first month's service.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I recall trying to archive the first year or two of my
>>>>> Quicken data, but
>>>>> haven't tried it since. I know the option is still there in the 2010
>>>>> program
>>>>> (File | File Operations | Year-end Copy), but I have no interest in
>>>>> using it.
>>>>> But I don't mind if Intuit leaves it there for those who want it.
>>>>>
>>>>> RC
>>>>
>>>> there is nothing anywhere in Quicken that states you gain anything
>>>> except some file space .. in this day and age .. no more floppies.. so
>>>> DVD-RW disks .. flash drives... and external hard drives are the
>>>> norm.. seems like there is no worry about the file size anymore...
>>>> looked to me like it was kinda useless...
>>>>
>>>> I questioned this because a friend of a friend uses Archiving but has
>>>> no idea why he uses it except that someone a while back told him to..
>>>> go figure..
>>>>
>>>> I found this link.....a number of items in Quicken explained
>>>> http://financialsoft.about.com/od/quickenforbeginners/tp/Work-With-Quicken-Data-Files.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> as well as this
>>>> http://financialsoft.about.com/od/advancedtutorialsandtips/ss/q04_archive.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've been using Quicken Backup to a DVD-RW disk for a while now... I
>>>> also Backup to a 'My Quicken Backup' folder I created on one of my
>>>> hard drives separate from the main Quicken folder.. as well as backing
>>>> the entire Desktop up to an External Hard Drive
>>>
>>> And then if the house burns down you better have backed up to a HDD kept
>>> in a family members home or use one of the on-line storage services.
>>>
>>> I believe you can never have enough backups of critical data. Hey...I
>>> wear and a belt and suspenders. 8>)
>> Not too sure about entrusting my financial data to the cloud. One
>> never knows.....
>
> I look at it this way. All my financial institutions keep my data on a
> server in the "clouds". No way to get around that.

Yes but they have (hopefully) better security than these backup sites.
From: Ray on 5 Aug 2010 11:03
On 8/5/2010 9:16 AM, Jeff(a)nospam.invalid wrote:
> On 8/4/2010 11:23 PM, D.Duck wrote:
>>
>>
>> <Jeff(a)nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:i3cnuc$etn$2(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 8/2/2010 8:55 PM, D.Duck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ray" <nospam(a)aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:C56dnQETIJWqzMrRnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)atmc.coop...
>>>>> On 8/2/2010 6:26 PM, R. C. White wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, Ray.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once upon a time, in a galaxy far away...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was an accountant. I kept books. BIG books! With pen and ink
>>>>>> (remember
>>>>>> those?). Each year's books for one company might weigh 10 pounds. A
>>>>>> set of books
>>>>>> for 20 years might outweigh me! To keep the physical labor of
>>>>>> handling those
>>>>>> books manageable, we would "close" the books each year-end. Then we
>>>>>> would open a
>>>>>> new, slimmer set of books for the new year. If we needed to look back
>>>>>> in 1970 to
>>>>>> see what had happened in 1965, we had to - first - FIND the 1965
>>>>>> binders, and
>>>>>> then carry one from the vault to our desk, open it - then take it
>>>>>> back and get
>>>>>> the other binder, the right one, we hoped... You get the picture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I first started using Quicken - in 1990 - the situation was some
>>>>>> better.
>>>>>> But still, with those floppy diskettes and even with the humongous 5
>>>>>> MB (yep, M!
>>>>>> B) HDDs, it often took a good bit of disk shuffling to find
>>>>>> information from
>>>>>> just a few years ago. Especially if we continued the pen-and-ink
>>>>>> model of
>>>>>> closing our electronic books each year and creating an annual
>>>>>> archive, deleting
>>>>>> prior years' data from our working file to make room for the new
>>>>>> year's
>>>>>> transactions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, as disk drives grew, we could store 20 years' data in a
>>>>>> single file
>>>>>> using only a tiny fraction of a hard disk. Nowadays, many (most?) of
>>>>>> us Quicken
>>>>>> users like to keep ALL our financial history in our current working
>>>>>> file. My
>>>>>> Quicken file has data back to 1990; its total size is a little over
>>>>>> 50 MB now.
>>>>>> That's, let's see, 1.6667e-4 of that 300 GB HDD. (I don't read
>>>>>> scientific
>>>>>> notation very well, but that's a very small fraction!) Even with a
>>>>>> dozen
>>>>>> backups, there's plenty of room. So I don't feel a strong urge to
>>>>>> remove enough
>>>>>> data from the file to save disk space. And, I don't notice any
>>>>>> slowdown in
>>>>>> performance, sp that doesn't motivate me to shrink the file, either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does motivate me - to keep the data intact and at hand - is the
>>>>>> ability to
>>>>>> look back and see that I paid $71.88 for the local phone company to
>>>>>> install my
>>>>>> telephone on November 13, 1990, including the first month's service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I recall trying to archive the first year or two of my
>>>>>> Quicken data, but
>>>>>> haven't tried it since. I know the option is still there in the 2010
>>>>>> program
>>>>>> (File | File Operations | Year-end Copy), but I have no interest in
>>>>>> using it.
>>>>>> But I don't mind if Intuit leaves it there for those who want it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RC
>>>>>
>>>>> there is nothing anywhere in Quicken that states you gain anything
>>>>> except some file space .. in this day and age .. no more floppies.. so
>>>>> DVD-RW disks .. flash drives... and external hard drives are the
>>>>> norm.. seems like there is no worry about the file size anymore...
>>>>> looked to me like it was kinda useless...
>>>>>
>>>>> I questioned this because a friend of a friend uses Archiving but has
>>>>> no idea why he uses it except that someone a while back told him to..
>>>>> go figure..
>>>>>
>>>>> I found this link.....a number of items in Quicken explained
>>>>> http://financialsoft.about.com/od/quickenforbeginners/tp/Work-With-Quicken-Data-Files.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> as well as this
>>>>> http://financialsoft.about.com/od/advancedtutorialsandtips/ss/q04_archive.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been using Quicken Backup to a DVD-RW disk for a while now... I
>>>>> also Backup to a 'My Quicken Backup' folder I created on one of my
>>>>> hard drives separate from the main Quicken folder.. as well as backing
>>>>> the entire Desktop up to an External Hard Drive
>>>>
>>>> And then if the house burns down you better have backed up to a HDD kept
>>>> in a family members home or use one of the on-line storage services.
>>>>
>>>> I believe you can never have enough backups of critical data. Hey...I
>>>> wear and a belt and suspenders. 8>)
>>> Not too sure about entrusting my financial data to the cloud. One
>>> never knows.....
>>
>> I look at it this way. All my financial institutions keep my data on a
>> server in the "clouds". No way to get around that.
>
> Yes but they have (hopefully) better security than these backup sites.


I agree totally.. none of my Personal or Important info do I keep on 'clouds'
I go the backup to external hard drives.. multiples.. before I do the 'clouds'
From: slb on 5 Aug 2010 23:08
Wanna bet?

I've been in IT for 36 years and am currently CIO at a rather large company. Go beyond the trade
rag and consultant (I was one of them for 18 years, too) hype and you'll find companies are very
cautious about moving all their data to mysterious "external clouds." Mine certainly is.
Financial institutions and health care providers are even more at risk due to the sensitive
information they must protect (I also worked for a major credit card company).

Besides security issues, you also have to deal with intellectual property concerns (especially
outside the US - see UAE vs. RIM), what happens if the cloud co goes out of business, declares
bancruptcy, or gets bought (will contracts be honored?), how to move data if you switch to
another cloud co, etc., etc., etc.

There's also the time necessary to encrypt and transmit data to the "cloud." A DS3 connection
(around $3k/mo) transmits at around 5.5 MBYTES/second. Moving 200 GB can take 10+ hours.

Several years ago I was CIO at a financial services company that outsourced our data center to a
colocation facility. I was at the site one day when law enforcement arrived with a subpoena and
hauled out a large shared disk storage array. Fortunately, my data wasn't on that device.
However, there were several innocent companies whose data was pulled offline for a while and
potentially compromised as the authorities searched the array. I immediately bought an array and
moved my company data from the shared device we had been renting.

There are some advantages to clouds but it's not happening as fast as some would lead you to
believe because they have something they want to sell.

sb

"D.Duck" wrote:

> <Jeff(a)nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:i3cnuc$etn$2(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> > On 8/2/2010 8:55 PM, D.Duck wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> "Ray" <nospam(a)aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:C56dnQETIJWqzMrRnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)atmc.coop...
> >>> On 8/2/2010 6:26 PM, R. C. White wrote:
> >>>> Hi, Ray.
> >>>>
> >>>> Once upon a time, in a galaxy far away...
> >>>>
> >>>> I was an accountant. I kept books. BIG books! With pen and ink
> >>>> (remember
> >>>> those?). Each year's books for one company might weigh 10 pounds. A
> >>>> set of books
> >>>> for 20 years might outweigh me! To keep the physical labor of
> >>>> handling those
> >>>> books manageable, we would "close" the books each year-end. Then we
> >>>> would open a
> >>>> new, slimmer set of books for the new year. If we needed to look back
> >>>> in 1970 to
> >>>> see what had happened in 1965, we had to - first - FIND the 1965
> >>>> binders, and
> >>>> then carry one from the vault to our desk, open it - then take it
> >>>> back and get
> >>>> the other binder, the right one, we hoped... You get the picture.
> >>>>
> >>>> When I first started using Quicken - in 1990 - the situation was some
> >>>> better.
> >>>> But still, with those floppy diskettes and even with the humongous 5
> >>>> MB (yep, M!
> >>>> B) HDDs, it often took a good bit of disk shuffling to find
> >>>> information from
> >>>> just a few years ago. Especially if we continued the pen-and-ink
> >>>> model of
> >>>> closing our electronic books each year and creating an annual
> >>>> archive, deleting
> >>>> prior years' data from our working file to make room for the new year's
> >>>> transactions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Finally, as disk drives grew, we could store 20 years' data in a
> >>>> single file
> >>>> using only a tiny fraction of a hard disk. Nowadays, many (most?) of
> >>>> us Quicken
> >>>> users like to keep ALL our financial history in our current working
> >>>> file. My
> >>>> Quicken file has data back to 1990; its total size is a little over
> >>>> 50 MB now.
> >>>> That's, let's see, 1.6667e-4 of that 300 GB HDD. (I don't read
> >>>> scientific
> >>>> notation very well, but that's a very small fraction!) Even with a
> >>>> dozen
> >>>> backups, there's plenty of room. So I don't feel a strong urge to
> >>>> remove enough
> >>>> data from the file to save disk space. And, I don't notice any
> >>>> slowdown in
> >>>> performance, sp that doesn't motivate me to shrink the file, either.
> >>>>
> >>>> What does motivate me - to keep the data intact and at hand - is the
> >>>> ability to
> >>>> look back and see that I paid $71.88 for the local phone company to
> >>>> install my
> >>>> telephone on November 13, 1990, including the first month's service.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think I recall trying to archive the first year or two of my
> >>>> Quicken data, but
> >>>> haven't tried it since. I know the option is still there in the 2010
> >>>> program
> >>>> (File | File Operations | Year-end Copy), but I have no interest in
> >>>> using it.
> >>>> But I don't mind if Intuit leaves it there for those who want it.
> >>>>
> >>>> RC
> >>>
> >>> there is nothing anywhere in Quicken that states you gain anything
> >>> except some file space .. in this day and age .. no more floppies.. so
> >>> DVD-RW disks .. flash drives... and external hard drives are the
> >>> norm.. seems like there is no worry about the file size anymore...
> >>> looked to me like it was kinda useless...
> >>>
> >>> I questioned this because a friend of a friend uses Archiving but has
> >>> no idea why he uses it except that someone a while back told him to..
> >>> go figure..
> >>>
> >>> I found this link.....a number of items in Quicken explained
> >>> http://financialsoft.about.com/od/quickenforbeginners/tp/Work-With-Quicken-Data-Files.htm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> as well as this
> >>> http://financialsoft.about.com/od/advancedtutorialsandtips/ss/q04_archive.htm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I've been using Quicken Backup to a DVD-RW disk for a while now... I
> >>> also Backup to a 'My Quicken Backup' folder I created on one of my
> >>> hard drives separate from the main Quicken folder.. as well as backing
> >>> the entire Desktop up to an External Hard Drive
> >>
> >> And then if the house burns down you better have backed up to a HDD kept
> >> in a family members home or use one of the on-line storage services.
> >>
> >> I believe you can never have enough backups of critical data. Hey...I
> >> wear and a belt and suspenders. 8>)
> > Not too sure about entrusting my financial data to the cloud. One never
> > knows.....
>
> I look at it this way. All my financial institutions keep my data on a
> server in the "clouds". No way to get around that.

From: John Carter on 9 Aug 2010 21:23
slb <slb(a)aol.com> wrote in news:4C5B7CAD.7EF2E460(a)aol.com:

> Wanna bet?
>
> I've been in IT for 36 years and am currently CIO at a rather
> large company. Go beyond the trade rag and consultant (I was one
> of them for 18 years, too) hype and you'll find companies are very
> cautious about moving all their data to mysterious "external
> clouds." Mine certainly is. Financial institutions and health care
> providers are even more at risk due to the sensitive information
> they must protect (I also worked for a major credit card company).
>
> Besides security issues, you also have to deal with intellectual
> property concerns (especially outside the US - see UAE vs. RIM),
> what happens if the cloud co goes out of business, declares
> bancruptcy, or gets bought (will contracts be honored?), how to
> move data if you switch to another cloud co, etc., etc., etc.
>
> There's also the time necessary to encrypt and transmit data to
> the "cloud." A DS3 connection (around $3k/mo) transmits at around
> 5.5 MBYTES/second. Moving 200 GB can take 10+ hours.
>
> Several years ago I was CIO at a financial services company that
> outsourced our data center to a colocation facility. I was at the
> site one day when law enforcement arrived with a subpoena and
> hauled out a large shared disk storage array. Fortunately, my data
> wasn't on that device. However, there were several innocent
> companies whose data was pulled offline for a while and
> potentially compromised as the authorities searched the array. I
> immediately bought an array and moved my company data from the
> shared device we had been renting.
>
> There are some advantages to clouds but it's not happening as fast
> as some would lead you to believe because they have something they
> want to sell.
>
> sb
>
AMEN!

In my mind, the "cloud" is still a newfound buzzword that could
possibly live up to the hype its getting. But until it is proven
to be something other than another method of separating users
from their hard-earned money, I'll stay out of the clouds and
remain in the realm of reality in the real world.
From: XS11E on 10 Aug 2010 10:40
slb <slb(a)aol.com> wrote:

> There are some advantages to clouds

And they are?


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
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