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From: infiniteMPG on 12 Dec 2009 18:45
I have a great Black & Decker 24VDC FireStorm Hammer Drill that works
GREAT. The problem I am having is within the first few months, one
battery wouldn't hold a charge. So I got a spare but now I have a
second one not holding charge. Looked online and since this isn't the
latest and greatest thing now, the batteries are EXPENSIVE!

FireStorm FS240BX Battery Pack

I am not about to pay as much for a new battery as I can buy a new
drill for, so my question is : IS THERE ANY WAY TO REVIVE A
RECHARGEABLE BATTERY????
From: Dave Plowman (News) on 13 Dec 2009 05:20
In article
<f5ba2452-7744-450b-99ec-3683c8635286(a)e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
hr(bob) hofmann(a)att.net <hrhofmann(a)att.net> wrote:
> > If they're only lasting a few months take them back for a refund. And
> > buy a decent make. B&D hasn't been this for years.


> What do you recomnmend as a replacement for the Versatek 3.8V
> batteries?

I've no idea. Replacement batteries often cost as much as a complete tool
- such is the vagaries of supply and demand. Even with good makes.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: bob urz on 13 Dec 2009 11:47
infiniteMPG wrote:
> I have a great Black & Decker 24VDC FireStorm Hammer Drill that works
> GREAT. The problem I am having is within the first few months, one
> battery wouldn't hold a charge. So I got a spare but now I have a
> second one not holding charge. Looked online and since this isn't the
> latest and greatest thing now, the batteries are EXPENSIVE!
>
> FireStorm FS240BX Battery Pack
>
> I am not about to pay as much for a new battery as I can buy a new
> drill for, so my question is : IS THERE ANY WAY TO REVIVE A
> RECHARGEABLE BATTERY????
Yes, maybe, but its not a safe process.

Most cells i see fail shorted. This will work with NiCad packs only. You
have to take the pack apart and measure each cell voltage will DMM. Mark
each cell that does not measure arouind 1.2v or so. Use a small bench
power supply that does 6 to 12 volts at five to 10 amps. Put on gloves
and eye protection. hook up the negotive lead to the bottom of the
battery. Now, touch the postitive lead for a second or less and repeat
the process. Doing this, sometimes you can burn the dendrite short
open internally in the battery. Sometimes this will work, sometimes not.
Never leave high current on for more than a 1 second or so burst.
Do this to all cells that appear to be shorted. when the pack has all
cells reading ok, run it down as far as you can and recharge.
If your real lucky, you might get a little more life out of it.

bob
From: Jeff Liebermann on 13 Dec 2009 12:20
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:45:25 -0800 (PST), infiniteMPG
<57classic(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>I have a great Black & Decker 24VDC FireStorm Hammer Drill that works
>GREAT. The problem I am having is within the first few months, one
>battery wouldn't hold a charge. So I got a spare but now I have a
>second one not holding charge. Looked online and since this isn't the
>latest and greatest thing now, the batteries are EXPENSIVE!
>
>FireStorm FS240BX Battery Pack
>
>I am not about to pay as much for a new battery as I can buy a new
>drill for, so my question is : IS THERE ANY WAY TO REVIVE A
>RECHARGEABLE BATTERY????

I got fed up with the NiCd and NiMH battery game long ago. Some of my
portable hand tools are now running off lead acid gel cell batteries.
In obtained a pile of 12V 7A gel cells which have kept various UPS's
running. I try to buy 12V and 24V power tools, so that they'll run
directly off the battery. I use about 6ft of #12 or #14 wire to the
battery. Charging is with a home made gel cell charger, that I have
set for long battery life to not go above about 85-90% of charge. It's
actually easier to kill a gel cell than a NiCd or NiMH pack, so the
charger is critical.

Oddly, I've found that using the tool without the battery pack reduces
the weight sufficiently to make it easier to use the power tools.
However, the balance on a drill is all wrong, with the drill appearing
top heavy and awkward.

I've also been doing some very disorganized experiments with a West
Mtn Radio CBA-II battery tester:
<http://www.westmountainradio.com/CBA.htm>
I do not have the professional software, so I can't do cyclic battery
life testing. However, I have noticed an oddity comparing no-name and
quality NiMH cells. The initial charge point for the quality cells is
at about 90% of full charge, while the cheap no-name cells are closer
to 100%. This is sorta an artifact of the way the CBA-II works. It
does not charge the battery packs. It just discharges them, and
graphs the discharge curve. The stored power (energy?) is the area
under the curve. When I charged a pack using the supplied charger, I
saw the differences in initial charge. When I used my home made
charger, I could not tell the difference between quality and junk
cells on the initial few runs.

Therefore, my guess(tm) is that you can make your B&D 24VDC Fire
Belching Drill battery packs last much longer if you use a different
and more conservative battery charger that stops charging well before
hitting 100%. Incidentally, the easy way to tell if you're
overcharging a NiCd or NiMH battery pack is that if they get hot or
even warm, you're overcharging or charging too fast.

This should offer a clue on NiCd and NiMH charging:
<http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/hayles/charge1.html>
Note that not all cells can be quick charged.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
From: Jamie on 13 Dec 2009 13:59
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:45:25 -0800 (PST), infiniteMPG
> <57classic(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have a great Black & Decker 24VDC FireStorm Hammer Drill that works
>>GREAT. The problem I am having is within the first few months, one
>>battery wouldn't hold a charge. So I got a spare but now I have a
>>second one not holding charge. Looked online and since this isn't the
>>latest and greatest thing now, the batteries are EXPENSIVE!
>>
>>FireStorm FS240BX Battery Pack
>>
>>I am not about to pay as much for a new battery as I can buy a new
>>drill for, so my question is : IS THERE ANY WAY TO REVIVE A
>>RECHARGEABLE BATTERY????
>
>
> I got fed up with the NiCd and NiMH battery game long ago. Some of my
> portable hand tools are now running off lead acid gel cell batteries.
> In obtained a pile of 12V 7A gel cells which have kept various UPS's
> running. I try to buy 12V and 24V power tools, so that they'll run
> directly off the battery. I use about 6ft of #12 or #14 wire to the
> battery. Charging is with a home made gel cell charger, that I have
> set for long battery life to not go above about 85-90% of charge. It's
> actually easier to kill a gel cell than a NiCd or NiMH pack, so the
> charger is critical.
>
> Oddly, I've found that using the tool without the battery pack reduces
> the weight sufficiently to make it easier to use the power tools.
> However, the balance on a drill is all wrong, with the drill appearing
> top heavy and awkward.
>
> I've also been doing some very disorganized experiments with a West
> Mtn Radio CBA-II battery tester:
> <http://www.westmountainradio.com/CBA.htm>
> I do not have the professional software, so I can't do cyclic battery
> life testing. However, I have noticed an oddity comparing no-name and
> quality NiMH cells. The initial charge point for the quality cells is
> at about 90% of full charge, while the cheap no-name cells are closer
> to 100%. This is sorta an artifact of the way the CBA-II works. It
> does not charge the battery packs. It just discharges them, and
> graphs the discharge curve. The stored power (energy?) is the area
> under the curve. When I charged a pack using the supplied charger, I
> saw the differences in initial charge. When I used my home made
> charger, I could not tell the difference between quality and junk
> cells on the initial few runs.
>
> Therefore, my guess(tm) is that you can make your B&D 24VDC Fire
> Belching Drill battery packs last much longer if you use a different
> and more conservative battery charger that stops charging well before
> hitting 100%. Incidentally, the easy way to tell if you're
> overcharging a NiCd or NiMH battery pack is that if they get hot or
> even warm, you're overcharging or charging too fast.
I have a friend that does that with a dummy pack plugged into the
tool, he has a small 24 volt battery supply he carries with him in his
car that is mounted on a small dolly that he takes with him on jobs :)
He built the step down in the base of the dummy packs so that he can
use the various tools he has. He has an array of power jacks on this
small dolly. This dolly will charge from 120 or 12 volt car supply!

He also runs his laptop from it. He has a lap supply that operates
down to 12 volts AC/DC up to 120 Volts universal type with just a cord
change. I think he uses 2 12 volt batteries, not sure..

Not sure of the battery sizes how ever, I know its got capacity, He
does plug it into 120 AC if its available locally and does have some
batteries for some of his stuff if the cord gets in the way. THis is
just a back up when those go down, he keeps the dummy packs in a pouch
mounted on the back side of
the dolly for each device.
P.S.
This dolly also has a small inverter on it!, much like one of those
portable power units you see.

It's an interesting concept for guys on the go and I am sure that
units like this are available with out building your own. You just need
to gutt out a bad pack on the tool and put in a heavy heat sink with
a pwm supply with power mosfets and set the correct voltage, like he
did :)









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