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From: oopere on 27 May 2010 07:44
Today many systems integrate knowledge from these three fields.
However, most bachelors are focused on a subset of them. Are you aware
of any degrees which give a broad view of these fields?

I have been able to find very few, and it is not easy to search for this
as this requires digging quite deep in the specific programmes. The most
similar to what I am looking for is the Bachelor of Sciences in Computer
Science and Communications Engineering of Duisburg University.
http://www.uni-duisburg-essen.de/studienangebote/studienangebote_07116.shtml

I would appreciate any information on similar degrees in (worldwide)
universities.

Pere
From: John Larkin on 27 May 2010 12:22
On Thu, 27 May 2010 13:44:39 +0200, oopere <me(a)somewhere.net> wrote:

>Today many systems integrate knowledge from these three fields.
>However, most bachelors are focused on a subset of them. Are you aware
>of any degrees which give a broad view of these fields?
>
>I have been able to find very few, and it is not easy to search for this
>as this requires digging quite deep in the specific programmes. The most
>similar to what I am looking for is the Bachelor of Sciences in Computer
>Science and Communications Engineering of Duisburg University.
>http://www.uni-duisburg-essen.de/studienangebote/studienangebote_07116.shtml
>
>I would appreciate any information on similar degrees in (worldwide)
>universities.
>
>Pere

Tulane University, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, did a lot of
soul-searching. They decided that they didn't have the critical mass
or resources to run an excellent engineering program, and President
Cowan decided to dump it. The dean of the engineering, Nick Altiero,
would have none of it. So he invented a 5-year dual-major program,
things like physics+EE, or biology+ME, with the hard engineering
component done in the last year or two at another school, like Georgia
Tech. Nick runs the whole thing now.

John

From: oopere on 28 May 2010 03:58
John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 27 May 2010 13:44:39 +0200, oopere <me(a)somewhere.net> wrote:
>
>> Today many systems integrate knowledge from these three fields.
>> However, most bachelors are focused on a subset of them. Are you aware
>> of any degrees which give a broad view of these fields?
>>
>> I have been able to find very few, and it is not easy to search for this
>> as this requires digging quite deep in the specific programmes. The most
>> similar to what I am looking for is the Bachelor of Sciences in Computer
>> Science and Communications Engineering of Duisburg University.
>> http://www.uni-duisburg-essen.de/studienangebote/studienangebote_07116.shtml
>>
>> I would appreciate any information on similar degrees in (worldwide)
>> universities.
>>
>> Pere
>
> Tulane University, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, did a lot of
> soul-searching. They decided that they didn't have the critical mass
> or resources to run an excellent engineering program, and President
> Cowan decided to dump it. The dean of the engineering, Nick Altiero,
> would have none of it. So he invented a 5-year dual-major program,
> things like physics+EE, or biology+ME, with the hard engineering
> component done in the last year or two at another school, like Georgia
> Tech. Nick runs the whole thing now.
>
> John
>

We are currently developing a new integrated engineering degree
combining the areas of electronics, computers and communication with
more or less the same emphasis on all of them. A lot of systems today
require engineers that know as much as possible from:
-analog (including power and RF) and digital circuit design
-programmable devices (CPLDs, FPGAs, "PICs", "AVRs" ...)
-high and low level programming (+ the associated tools: versioning..)
-signals and systems theory
-analog and digital signal processing
-computer networking
Finally, they should be able to integrate this knowledge in a system
that works (from powering the devices to relevant standards, from
specifications to budget, planning, teamworking...).

But it seems there are not many universities offering such an integrated
engineering program, which is kind of a surprise.

Pere

From: Joel Koltner on 28 May 2010 13:55
"oopere" <me(a)somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:htnt2b$ddh$1(a)defalla.upc.es...
> We are currently developing a new integrated engineering degree combining
> the areas of electronics, computers and communication with more or less the
> same emphasis on all of them. A lot of systems today require engineers that
> know as much as possible from:
> -analog (including power and RF) and digital circuit design
> -programmable devices (CPLDs, FPGAs, "PICs", "AVRs" ...)
> -high and low level programming (+ the associated tools: versioning..)
> -signals and systems theory
> -analog and digital signal processing
> -computer networking
> Finally, they should be able to integrate this knowledge in a system that
> works (from powering the devices to relevant standards, from specifications
> to budget, planning, teamworking...).
>
> But it seems there are not many universities offering such an integrated
> engineering program, which is kind of a surprise.

It might be because you have such a wide range of topics there that the
knowledge you can impart in 4 or 5 years is probably going to be pretty
shallow. It's one thing to say, "oh, I want some guy who can design a board
using a SimpleSwitcher and some 'bits in, RF out' IC and hook it up via
Ethernet and write some C++ code using a provided TCP/IP stack to build a
wireless link," but it's quite another to expect that you'll be able to find
many single people who can do all of, e.g., "this guy did the custom magnetics
design for the switcher, made sure it passed EMI/EMC limits, designed some
mixers and RF amplifiers starting with transistors, wrote all the DSP code
from scratch to implement our fancy new custom modulation scheme, and then
wrote an optimized TCP/IP stack to achieve the best throughput possible all at
very low power and making for a very low priced board when it's all said and
done."

Granted, there's certainly demand for "very broad but not too deep" engineers
out there (isn't that largely what industrial engineers do?), but you can bet
that a lot of the professors are going to be somewhat reluctant to take what
they consider to be a very "thorough" course and make it more of a "survey"
course to meet your objective.

Then again, it's happened before -- when I was an undergraduate in the early
'90s, my university (U. of Wisconsin-Madison) dropped from having 3 semester
of analog design down to 2 so that they could toss in another digital course
since "clearly" analog was largely obsolete and the future was "all digital."
(Which was kinda true... until the wireless revolution in the mid- to
late-'90s and CPU speeds hitting GHz+ speeds turned the paradigm on its
head...)

---Joel

From: oopere on 31 May 2010 07:18


Joel Koltner wrote:
> "oopere" <me(a)somewhere.net> wrote in message
> news:htnt2b$ddh$1(a)defalla.upc.es...
>> We are currently developing a new integrated engineering degree
>> combining the areas of electronics, computers and communication with
>> more or less the same emphasis on all of them. A lot of systems today
>> require engineers that know as much as possible from:
>> -analog (including power and RF) and digital circuit design
>> -programmable devices (CPLDs, FPGAs, "PICs", "AVRs" ...)
>> -high and low level programming (+ the associated tools: versioning..)
>> -signals and systems theory
>> -analog and digital signal processing
>> -computer networking
>> Finally, they should be able to integrate this knowledge in a system
>> that works (from powering the devices to relevant standards, from
>> specifications to budget, planning, teamworking...).
>>
>> But it seems there are not many universities offering such an
>> integrated engineering program, which is kind of a surprise.
>
> It might be because you have such a wide range of topics there that the
> knowledge you can impart in 4 or 5 years is probably going to be pretty
> shallow. It's one thing to say, "oh, I want some guy who can design a
> board using a SimpleSwitcher and some 'bits in, RF out' IC and hook it
> up via Ethernet and write some C++ code using a provided TCP/IP stack to
> build a wireless link," but it's quite another to expect that you'll be
> able to find many single people who can do all of, e.g., "this guy did
> the custom magnetics design for the switcher, made sure it passed
> EMI/EMC limits, designed some mixers and RF amplifiers starting with
> transistors, wrote all the DSP code from scratch to implement our fancy
> new custom modulation scheme, and then wrote an optimized TCP/IP stack
> to achieve the best throughput possible all at very low power and making
> for a very low priced board when it's all said and done."

You are absolutely right. If you want it broad, it can't be too deep.
But, as you point out, there is demand for this kind of engineers.

> Granted, there's certainly demand for "very broad but not too deep"
> engineers out there (isn't that largely what industrial engineers do?),
> but you can bet that a lot of the professors are going to be somewhat
> reluctant to take what they consider to be a very "thorough" course and
> make it more of a "survey" course to meet your objective.

For such an approach to be successful you have to redesign each course.
And, most notably, you have to present each subject as part of a whole.
This is in contrast with most "traditional" degrees where each subject
is an island with almost no connection to anything else. And this
requires a substantial effort from the teaching staff... We'll see how
it works!

Pere

> Then again, it's happened before -- when I was an undergraduate in the
> early '90s, my university (U. of Wisconsin-Madison) dropped from having
> 3 semester of analog design down to 2 so that they could toss in another
> digital course since "clearly" analog was largely obsolete and the
> future was "all digital." (Which was kinda true... until the wireless
> revolution in the mid- to late-'90s and CPU speeds hitting GHz+ speeds
> turned the paradigm on its head...)
>
> ---Joel
>
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