Best paper value
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From: TJ on 14 Feb 2010 16:54 I've seen some discussions here before on which is the best photo paper for this or that, and some of them have been quite interesting. But let's face it - there are a lot of printers that never print so much as a single photo. These printers, both inkjet and laser, usually print office-type items, some for large offices, some small, some even at home. And these printers need paper to print on. Plain paper. The choices for plain paper almost seem endless. Far too many choices for one user to try them all to find the best value. So I thought I'd come here and ask for experiences, both good and bad, concerning a good value in plain paper. As I ask this, keep in mind that I'm talking about more than quality when I speak of value. Value is a ratio of cost to quality, so for the purposes of this discussion, I believe that an inexpensive, good-quality paper is a better *value* than an expensive, ultra-high-quality paper. I also believe that a low-quality paper is rarely a good value, at any price. So I'll start things off. I thought I was running low on paper about a year ago, when I happen to pass a display in Wal-mart. They had some Georgia-Pacific "Copy & Print" paper on sale, a 5-ream box for around $16, as I recall. I bought a box, and brought it home. As luck would have it, somebody gave me a free, unlabeled ream of another paper, and I used that before trying the GP paper last week. I wish I'd used the GP paper from the start. The 92-brightness paper is nice and white, and the text of my prints looks crisp and professional. To my untrained eye, I can't tell the difference between my Officejet 6110's output on this paper, and some I've seen from a laser printer. The free paper, while it was also nice and bright, allowed the ink to bleed a bit, making the text look, um, fuzzy in comparison. It was OK, but not nearly as nice as the GP paper. I wish I knew the brand of the free paper, so I'd know to avoid it in the future. Perhaps it wasn't meant for inkjet use. Unfortunately, Wal-mart has apparently stopped carrying this paper. At least, I didn't see any the last time I was there, and I don't find it on the Wal-mart website. However, Sam's Club carries a similar-sounding GP paper, "Image Plus," for about the same price as I paid in Wal-mart. Next time I need paper, unless I hear of a better value from this discussion, I'll try that one. OK, anybody else? TJ -- 90 per cent of everything is crud. - Theodore Sturgeon
From: Arthur Entlich on 15 Feb 2010 06:12 I certainly applaud your pursuit, but I would add a few provisos. Even more than how certain inks respond to quality inkjet specialized paper, on plain non-coated paper the ink formulation is even more critical to the output quality. The main consideration is pigment versus dye, but there are even variations within each category. In general, if you are speaking about black text, pigment inks will provide you with a dark black fairly well edged print. Most Canon and HP printers use a pigment black ink. Color ink may vary. Even printers using black pigment inks may still use dye inks for their colors. Epson printers do not used mixed inks. Those using Durabrite or Ultrachrome inks have all pigment inks. Most other Epson inks, are dye or dye hybrid. Dye inks are more sensitive to uncoated papers. Dye inks tend to be less defined and less bright on uncoated papers, and vary considerably in their density. With dye inks it is best to test which profile you use with uncoated paper. Using a profile which provides too much ink will make the result bleed and look muddy and indistinct. Not enough ink will cause it to be washed out. For some general rules, when looking for uncoated (plain bond) paper, look for paper that specifies it is good for inkjet printing. This may include paper which has some clay or sizing content, or which has short paper fibers, which lessens the length of the bleed or wicking. With dye inks, I had some success with both the Xerox High Tech, which is only a 87 brightness, and the red packaged Xerox reams of paper. I would suggest when people make recommendations from their experiences, they also mention which printer and ink they use, as this does make a significant difference. Art If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste, I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog: http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/ TJ wrote: > I've seen some discussions here before on which is the best photo paper > for this or that, and some of them have been quite interesting. But > let's face it - there are a lot of printers that never print so much as > a single photo. These printers, both inkjet and laser, usually print > office-type items, some for large offices, some small, some even at home. > > And these printers need paper to print on. Plain paper. The choices for > plain paper almost seem endless. Far too many choices for one user to > try them all to find the best value. So I thought I'd come here and ask > for experiences, both good and bad, concerning a good value in plain paper. > > As I ask this, keep in mind that I'm talking about more than quality > when I speak of value. Value is a ratio of cost to quality, so for the > purposes of this discussion, I believe that an inexpensive, good-quality > paper is a better *value* than an expensive, ultra-high-quality paper. I > also believe that a low-quality paper is rarely a good value, at any price. > > So I'll start things off. I thought I was running low on paper about a > year ago, when I happen to pass a display in Wal-mart. They had some > Georgia-Pacific "Copy & Print" paper on sale, a 5-ream box for around > $16, as I recall. I bought a box, and brought it home. As luck would > have it, somebody gave me a free, unlabeled ream of another paper, and I > used that before trying the GP paper last week. I wish I'd used the GP > paper from the start. The 92-brightness paper is nice and white, and the > text of my prints looks crisp and professional. To my untrained eye, I > can't tell the difference between my Officejet 6110's output on this > paper, and some I've seen from a laser printer. > > The free paper, while it was also nice and bright, allowed the ink to > bleed a bit, making the text look, um, fuzzy in comparison. It was OK, > but not nearly as nice as the GP paper. I wish I knew the brand of the > free paper, so I'd know to avoid it in the future. Perhaps it wasn't > meant for inkjet use. > > Unfortunately, Wal-mart has apparently stopped carrying this paper. At > least, I didn't see any the last time I was there, and I don't find it > on the Wal-mart website. However, Sam's Club carries a similar-sounding > GP paper, "Image Plus," for about the same price as I paid in Wal-mart. > Next time I need paper, unless I hear of a better value from this > discussion, I'll try that one. > > OK, anybody else? > > TJ
From: TJ on 15 Feb 2010 09:22 On 02/15/2010 06:12 AM, Arthur Entlich wrote: > I certainly applaud your pursuit, but I would add a few provisos. > > Even more than how certain inks respond to quality inkjet specialized > paper, on plain non-coated paper the ink formulation is even more > critical to the output quality. > > The main consideration is pigment versus dye, but there are even > variations within each category. > > In general, if you are speaking about black text, pigment inks will > provide you with a dark black fairly well edged print. Most Canon and > HP printers use a pigment black ink. Color ink may vary. Even printers > using black pigment inks may still use dye inks for their colors. > > Epson printers do not used mixed inks. Those using Durabrite or > Ultrachrome inks have all pigment inks. Most other Epson inks, are dye > or dye hybrid. > > Dye inks are more sensitive to uncoated papers. Dye inks tend to be > less defined and less bright on uncoated papers, and vary considerably > in their density. With dye inks it is best to test which profile you > use with uncoated paper. Using a profile which provides too much ink > will make the result bleed and look muddy and indistinct. Not enough > ink will cause it to be washed out. > > For some general rules, when looking for uncoated (plain bond) paper, > look for paper that specifies it is good for inkjet printing. This may > include paper which has some clay or sizing content, or which has short > paper fibers, which lessens the length of the bleed or wicking. > > With dye inks, I had some success with both the Xerox High Tech, which > is only a 87 brightness, and the red packaged Xerox reams of paper. > > I would suggest when people make recommendations from their experiences, > they also mention which printer and ink they use, as this does make a > significant difference. > > Excellent points, Arthur. So... As I stated, so far I've used this paper in an HP Officejet 6110. I also have a Deskjet 5650, but I haven't used this paper in that one yet. Since both printers are based on the same print engine, results should be similar. These printers use HP's #56(black) and #57(tricolor) for everyday, non-photo printing. The OEM black cart uses pigmented ink, while the tricolor is dye-based. However, when printing text, unless I tell the printer specifically not to, it "enhances" the pigmented black with a little ink from the tricolor. In this case, the black cart had been "remanufactured," so the ink that is in it is unknown. The color cart is a slightly out-of-date OEM, so it has dye-based inks in it. The outside of the box of paper only said the "make and model," and that it was 92 brightness, 20 lb., and there were 5 reams inside. Inside, labels stuck on the ends of the individual packages, labels that I wouldn't have seen in the store, added that the "whiteness" is 145 - "Cool Blue White." There is nothing there on the make-up of the paper. Such information is no doubt available somewhere, but wasn't available when I was making my impulse decision. "Deals" are quite often like that. You make a decision based on your gut, and the circumstances at the time. Sometimes, like this one, it works out. Sometimes it doesn't. The more informed you make your gut, the more likely it is to steer you the right way. That is the reason for the discussion. TJ -- 90 per cent of everything is crud. - Theodore Sturgeon
From: John Brock on 17 Feb 2010 13:47 In article <hl9rfj$uu0$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, TJ <TJ(a)noneofyour.business> wrote: .... >As I ask this, keep in mind that I'm talking about more than quality >when I speak of value. Value is a ratio of cost to quality, so for the >purposes of this discussion, I believe that an inexpensive, good-quality >paper is a better *value* than an expensive, ultra-high-quality paper. I >also believe that a low-quality paper is rarely a good value, at any price. A related question: My paper usage is low, so I would prefer to buy the highest possible quality paper, regardless of price (within reason of course). But I print mostly text, not photos, so I want paper that isn't too heavy, and feels fairly normal in the hand. I've generally been satisfied with paper that specifies "Ink Jet," but since the question has come up, I wonder if anyone has any more specific suggestions. -- John Brock jbrock(a)panix.com
From: Arthur Entlich on 18 Feb 2010 02:51
Just what is it you would like the paper to be doing differently or better than it is now, that you think you would have available to you for more money? That might help in directing you toward another paper type. For example, if you want something more tear resistant, that can be done, or if you want something more permanent and less likely to fade, that can be done, etc. Also, what type of printing technology (laser, inkjet, etc) and what brand and model printer and are you using OEM (manufacturer's brand) or a third party product. As I mentioned in a previous posting, the printing technology and ink formulation has a lot to do with how it will appear on the paper. Do you print color or black and white? (Some printers use a completely different technology for printing black (for texts and lien drawings) than for color images or text, charts, etc. Art If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste, I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog: http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/ John Brock wrote: > In article <hl9rfj$uu0$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > TJ <TJ(a)noneofyour.business> wrote: > > ... > >> As I ask this, keep in mind that I'm talking about more than quality >> when I speak of value. Value is a ratio of cost to quality, so for the >> purposes of this discussion, I believe that an inexpensive, good-quality >> paper is a better *value* than an expensive, ultra-high-quality paper. I >> also believe that a low-quality paper is rarely a good value, at any price. > > A related question: My paper usage is low, so I would prefer to > buy the highest possible quality paper, regardless of price (within > reason of course). But I print mostly text, not photos, so I want > paper that isn't too heavy, and feels fairly normal in the hand. > I've generally been satisfied with paper that specifies "Ink Jet," > but since the question has come up, I wonder if anyone has any more > specific suggestions. |