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From: John Bokma on 22 Jun 2010 16:09
Stephen Hansen <me+list/python(a)ixokai.io> writes:

> On 6/22/10 6:48 AM, lallous wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I wonder if anyone read this:
>> http://www.amazon.com/PYTHON-2-6-Extending-Embedding-documentation/dp/1441419608/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277214352&sr=1-7
>> or this:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Python-Extending-Embedding-Documentation-Manual/dp/1441412743/ref=pd_sim_b_3
>>
>> Are these books just a print out of the manual that comes w/ Python
>> distribution or they are written in a different way and more organized
>> way?
>
> Uhh, that looks like a scam.

Uh, it looks like you're making a lot of drama and innuendo where none
is required. The OP links show books which have *clearly* the version in
the title. As for the 3 version, that's not different from the other
books on 3 in my experience. For example the excellent (IMO) "Programming
in Python 3: A Complete Introduction to the Python Language" (30 USD)
just came out with a 2nd edition a month or 2 after I had bought the
first. So if this is a scam how is publishing an "updated" version
shortly after the first version, each book about 30 USD? (Mind, I am not
complaining, I am happy that Mark decided to make an updated version
available, I own both editions).

> Someone scraped the Python docs and bundled
> it up as a "book" to sell to naive people for outrageous prices; and put
> Guido's name on it to give it legitimacy.
>
> It also bundles up the *tutorial* for $22. There's a number of very
> good, large Python books which sell for that. Surely Fred L Drake and
> Gudio aren't really involved in this. I wonder if they even know about
> it.

At 304 pages I think 22 USD is a reasonable price. Again, you make a lot
of drama where there is none.

And the product description makes /very clear/ what it's about: This is
a printed edition of the official Python documentation from the PYTHON
2.6.1 distribution. For each copy sold $1 will be donated to the PYTHON
SOFTWARE FOUNDATION by the publisher.

Now let's hope that your asshat behaviour doesn't stop companies like
this to continue to print those books. I have considered to buy the
complete set a few times. And I hope you're not calling me naive...

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development
From: alex23 on 22 Jun 2010 20:48
John Bokma <j...(a)castleamber.com> wrote:
> Now let's hope that your asshat behaviour doesn't stop companies like
> this to continue to print those books. I have considered to buy the
> complete set a few times. And I hope you're not calling me naive...

Given the current propensity for people to scrape web sites like
Wikipedia and publish them on Amazon without the rights holders'
consent, my initial impression was exactly the same as Stephen's. I
don't think there's anything contractually binding about the product
description that would guarantee the PSF even see any returns at all.
But hey, as long as the page _looks_ and _sounds_ official, it must
be, right?

Let's hope that _your_ asshat behaviour isn't responsible for people
being conned and ripped off.

From: Stephen Hansen on 22 Jun 2010 21:08
On 6/22/10 1:09 PM, John Bokma wrote:
> Now let's hope that your asshat behaviour doesn't stop companies like
> this to continue to print those books. I have considered to buy the
> complete set a few times. And I hope you're not calling me naive...

Excuse me?

I *have* seen people burned by confusion over situations *extremely*
similar to this; there's quite a lot of content which is being scraped
off of the internet and bundled into "books" and posted up on Amazon and
the like. From both technical sources and things like Wikipedia.

Yes. I read every single word available on the page. Yes. I read the
claims that they are donating some proceeds to the PSF. Yes, I read that
it (very poorly) identified what version of Python it was covering.

Yes, it looks sort of above board visually. That doesn't mean it is: and
considering I have *experience* dealing with things that look a lot like
this that *are* scams, I wondered. So I spoke up and asked to see if
anyone knew if it was really legit, after I found no evidence in a
couple Google searches of any legitimate or even quasi-existing entity
behind the products.

If being concerned about fellow Python-folks possibly getting ripped off
makes me an asshat, so be it. Go y'know-what yourself.

--

Stephen Hansen
... Also: Ixokai
... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/

From: John Bokma on 23 Jun 2010 00:45
Stephen Hansen <me+list/python(a)ixokai.io> writes:

> I *have* seen people burned by confusion over situations *extremely*
> similar to this;

But is it? You didn't even ask yourself that question.

> If being concerned about fellow Python-folks possibly getting ripped off
> makes me an asshat, so be it. Go y'know-what yourself.

If this publisher is legimate you might very well be denying
people -- like I said I am interested -- from getting a print-out in the
future just because /you/ cried wolf and called them scammers.

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development
From: John Bokma on 23 Jun 2010 00:48
alex23 <wuwei23(a)gmail.com> writes:

> John Bokma <j...(a)castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Now let's hope that your asshat behaviour doesn't stop companies like
>> this to continue to print those books. I have considered to buy the
>> complete set a few times. And I hope you're not calling me naive...
>
> Given the current propensity for people to scrape web sites like
> Wikipedia and publish them on Amazon without the rights holders'
> consent,

Can you explain were exactly it states that you can't print a book out
of wikipedia articles?:
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use

> my initial impression was exactly the same as Stephen's. I
> don't think there's anything contractually binding about the product
> description that would guarantee the PSF even see any returns at all.
> But hey, as long as the page _looks_ and _sounds_ official, it must
> be, right?

And if it looks like a scam, it must be, right?

> Let's hope that _your_ asshat behaviour isn't responsible for people
> being conned and ripped off.

Yeah, and let's hope that your asshat behaviour doesn't stop this
publisher from printing material that people like me actually want to buy.

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development
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