Boot problem
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From: Tom on 9 Mar 2010 21:10 "John John - MVP" <audetweld(a)nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message news:O8M0bT9vKHA.3536(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Tom wrote: >> >> >> "John John - MVP" <audetweld(a)nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >> news:Osdy326vKHA.1692(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> Jeff Gaines wrote: >>>> On 09/03/2010 in message <#UkXjs5vKHA.4492(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl> John >>>> John - MVP wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jeff Gaines wrote: >>>>>> On 09/03/2010 in message <#knFfn4vKHA.1984(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl> John >>>>>> John - MVP wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is it possible both partitions were marked as active? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That is impossible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why do you say that? >>>>> >>>>> Because that is how it is, only one partition can be marked as active >>>>> at any given time. If you mark another partition as active the active >>>>> flag of the currently active partition will be removed. This is just >>>>> the way things work on MBR disks, if there were more than one active >>>>> partition the MBR IPL wouldn't know where to pass the boot process. >>>>> When the computer is booted it goes something like this: >>>> >>>> That may be true using FDISK but I have certainly ended up with a PC >>>> with more than one drive with an active partition. It may have been >>>> when I fitted a 2nd drive from another PC or when I was playing with >>>> Linux. It is much harder to get out of than to get into in the first >>>> place. >>> >>> If you have more than one hard disk then of course you can have more >>> than one active partition as each disk can have an active partition. But >>> a single disk can only have one active partition, if by some glitch (or >>> by ill designed tools) more than one partition is set to be active the >>> disk will not be able to boot. >>> >>> Is it possible that glitches or ill designed tools might set more than >>> one active partition on the disk? None of the Microsoft tools do this, >>> but certainly other poorly designed tools might be able to screw up a >>> disk and software glitches can and do happen so it may be possible for >>> this to happen but I have never personally seen this... or been able to >>> inadvertently do it with any of the disk tools that I have worked with. >>> >>> Of course some boot managers install special boot partitions on the disk >>> and then from this special partition they can create hundreds of pseudo >>> primary partitions and possibly assign so called "active" status to any >>> or all of these partitions but these are not standard MBR defined >>> partitions, they are proprietary to the third party boot manager. >>> >>> John >> >> Well, since you corrected yourself, it certainly is possible. You did say >> that it was impossible, when I know I have done this on one single disk >> by creating two primary partitions, instead of the usual creation of the >> logical/extended flavor. > > We are not talking about "Primary Partitions", an MBR disk can have four > primary partitions but only one of these primary partitions can be active > at any given time. A primary partition is not necessarily an active > partition. You can use the built-in Disk Management tool (or many other > disk preparation tools) and create 4 primary partitions on the disk > without any problems, making more than one of them active is another story > altogether. > I am not disputing that and you can describe this as you see fit on how it works, I know (I build PCs). You stated it was impossible, but no matter, it is possible. I also know they would be primary partitions (did I not say that?), but you at least corrected yourself. I wasn't getting into the nut and bolts of how to do it, just that you stated it was "impossible".
From: John John - MVP on 9 Mar 2010 22:18 Tom wrote: > > > "John John - MVP" <audetweld(a)nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message > news:O8M0bT9vKHA.3536(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Tom wrote: >>> >>> >>> "John John - MVP" <audetweld(a)nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >>> news:Osdy326vKHA.1692(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> Jeff Gaines wrote: >>>>> On 09/03/2010 in message <#UkXjs5vKHA.4492(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl> >>>>> John John - MVP wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jeff Gaines wrote: >>>>>>> On 09/03/2010 in message <#knFfn4vKHA.1984(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl> >>>>>>> John John - MVP wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it possible both partitions were marked as active? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is impossible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why do you say that? >>>>>> >>>>>> Because that is how it is, only one partition can be marked as >>>>>> active at any given time. If you mark another partition as active >>>>>> the active flag of the currently active partition will be >>>>>> removed. This is just the way things work on MBR disks, if there >>>>>> were more than one active partition the MBR IPL wouldn't know >>>>>> where to pass the boot process. When the computer is booted it >>>>>> goes something like this: >>>>> >>>>> That may be true using FDISK but I have certainly ended up with a >>>>> PC with more than one drive with an active partition. It may have >>>>> been when I fitted a 2nd drive from another PC or when I was >>>>> playing with Linux. It is much harder to get out of than to get >>>>> into in the first place. >>>> >>>> If you have more than one hard disk then of course you can have more >>>> than one active partition as each disk can have an active partition. >>>> But a single disk can only have one active partition, if by some >>>> glitch (or by ill designed tools) more than one partition is set to >>>> be active the disk will not be able to boot. >>>> >>>> Is it possible that glitches or ill designed tools might set more >>>> than one active partition on the disk? None of the Microsoft tools >>>> do this, but certainly other poorly designed tools might be able to >>>> screw up a disk and software glitches can and do happen so it may be >>>> possible for this to happen but I have never personally seen this... >>>> or been able to inadvertently do it with any of the disk tools that >>>> I have worked with. >>>> >>>> Of course some boot managers install special boot partitions on the >>>> disk and then from this special partition they can create hundreds >>>> of pseudo primary partitions and possibly assign so called "active" >>>> status to any or all of these partitions but these are not standard >>>> MBR defined partitions, they are proprietary to the third party boot >>>> manager. >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> Well, since you corrected yourself, it certainly is possible. You did >>> say that it was impossible, when I know I have done this on one >>> single disk by creating two primary partitions, instead of the usual >>> creation of the logical/extended flavor. >> >> We are not talking about "Primary Partitions", an MBR disk can have >> four primary partitions but only one of these primary partitions can >> be active at any given time. A primary partition is not necessarily >> an active partition. You can use the built-in Disk Management tool >> (or many other disk preparation tools) and create 4 primary partitions >> on the disk without any problems, making more than one of them active >> is another story altogether. >> > > I am not disputing that and you can describe this as you see fit on how > it works, I know (I build PCs). You stated it was impossible, but no > matter, it is possible. I also know they would be primary partitions > (did I not say that?), but you at least corrected yourself. I wasn't > getting into the nut and bolts of how to do it, just that you stated it > was "impossible". If you know how to flag more than one partition active at the same time then tell us how you do it! You are confusing primary partitions with active partitions. The plain and simple fact of the matter is that an MBR disk cannot have more than one active partition at a given time, you can toggle the active partition back and forth between primary partitions but only one partition can be set active, that is the way it is was designed by IBM years ago and that is the way it is still today. If you do end up with more than one active partition then the disk is corrupt and you will get an invalid partition table error message when you try to boot the disk. John
From: John John - MVP on 9 Mar 2010 22:35 Tom wrote: > > > "John John - MVP" <audetweld(a)nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message > news:O8M0bT9vKHA.3536(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Tom wrote: >>> >>> >>> "John John - MVP" <audetweld(a)nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >>> news:Osdy326vKHA.1692(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> Jeff Gaines wrote: >>>>> On 09/03/2010 in message <#UkXjs5vKHA.4492(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl> >>>>> John John - MVP wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jeff Gaines wrote: >>>>>>> On 09/03/2010 in message <#knFfn4vKHA.1984(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl> >>>>>>> John John - MVP wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it possible both partitions were marked as active? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is impossible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why do you say that? >>>>>> >>>>>> Because that is how it is, only one partition can be marked as >>>>>> active at any given time. If you mark another partition as active >>>>>> the active flag of the currently active partition will be >>>>>> removed. This is just the way things work on MBR disks, if there >>>>>> were more than one active partition the MBR IPL wouldn't know >>>>>> where to pass the boot process. When the computer is booted it >>>>>> goes something like this: >>>>> >>>>> That may be true using FDISK but I have certainly ended up with a >>>>> PC with more than one drive with an active partition. It may have >>>>> been when I fitted a 2nd drive from another PC or when I was >>>>> playing with Linux. It is much harder to get out of than to get >>>>> into in the first place. >>>> >>>> If you have more than one hard disk then of course you can have more >>>> than one active partition as each disk can have an active partition. >>>> But a single disk can only have one active partition, if by some >>>> glitch (or by ill designed tools) more than one partition is set to >>>> be active the disk will not be able to boot. >>>> >>>> Is it possible that glitches or ill designed tools might set more >>>> than one active partition on the disk? None of the Microsoft tools >>>> do this, but certainly other poorly designed tools might be able to >>>> screw up a disk and software glitches can and do happen so it may be >>>> possible for this to happen but I have never personally seen this... >>>> or been able to inadvertently do it with any of the disk tools that >>>> I have worked with. >>>> >>>> Of course some boot managers install special boot partitions on the >>>> disk and then from this special partition they can create hundreds >>>> of pseudo primary partitions and possibly assign so called "active" >>>> status to any or all of these partitions but these are not standard >>>> MBR defined partitions, they are proprietary to the third party boot >>>> manager. >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> Well, since you corrected yourself, it certainly is possible. You did >>> say that it was impossible, when I know I have done this on one >>> single disk by creating two primary partitions, instead of the usual >>> creation of the logical/extended flavor. >> >> We are not talking about "Primary Partitions", an MBR disk can have >> four primary partitions but only one of these primary partitions can >> be active at any given time. A primary partition is not necessarily >> an active partition. You can use the built-in Disk Management tool >> (or many other disk preparation tools) and create 4 primary partitions >> on the disk without any problems, making more than one of them active >> is another story altogether. >> > > I am not disputing that and you can describe this as you see fit on how > it works, I know (I build PCs). You stated it was impossible, but no > matter, it is possible. I also know they would be primary partitions > (did I not say that?), but you at least corrected yourself. I wasn't > getting into the nut and bolts of how to do it, just that you stated it > was "impossible". http://www.linfo.org/active_partition.html Active partition definition by The Linux Information Project (LINFO) http://partitionlogic.org.uk/manual/partition-ops/active.html Partition Logic - User Manual - Active Partition http://blog.easeus.com/basic-guide/How-to-Set-an-Active-Partition-182.html How to Set an Active Partition? - EASEUS Data Recovery Blog http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/a/activepa.htm Active partition http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc779300(WS.10).aspx Mark a partition as active (32-bit only): Storage Services; Local File Systems http://www.partitionwizard.com/help/set-active.html Set Active/Inactive - Partition Wizard Help Are these authoritative enough for you?
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