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From: MissThing on 24 Feb 2010 14:17
Trying to put together a simple database for our church directory and
records. We need contact info as well as DOB and group involvement etc. Make
directories, labels, email groups and basic reports. Which I had no problems
with. What I am having issues with is the family relationship thing. We
often need to do mailings per household as well as individuals. What is the
best way to "group" my families. And how should they be entered? I thought
making a check box to designate a "head of household" and when entering
choose a family. Or have a seperate form for "families" THEN enter
individuals designateting them to that family. I don't want to have a whole
lot of tables and things. I really want this as simple as possible with as
little things that could get messed up down the road.

also this will hold our deceased records. Should we have a whole seperate
DB for that? or just have it together. This is not the main issue though and
can handle that at some other time. Right now I just have deceased as a
option under status.

Thank you so much for your time!

Lyndsey

I should mention I'v just altered the sample contacts template.

From: Steve on 24 Feb 2010 14:43
Lyndsey,

I would like to offer to create this database for you. The database would
include your deceased records. I could provide you the database quickly and
you could have it up and running in a short time. There would be a modest
fee for the database. If you are interested, contact me.

Steve
santus(a)penn.com


"MissThing" <MissThing(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:596EE388-021E-4022-9A28-384817EAE255(a)microsoft.com...
> Trying to put together a simple database for our church directory and
> records. We need contact info as well as DOB and group involvement etc.
> Make
> directories, labels, email groups and basic reports. Which I had no
> problems
> with. What I am having issues with is the family relationship thing. We
> often need to do mailings per household as well as individuals. What is
> the
> best way to "group" my families. And how should they be entered? I
> thought
> making a check box to designate a "head of household" and when entering
> choose a family. Or have a seperate form for "families" THEN enter
> individuals designateting them to that family. I don't want to have a
> whole
> lot of tables and things. I really want this as simple as possible with
> as
> little things that could get messed up down the road.
>
> also this will hold our deceased records. Should we have a whole seperate
> DB for that? or just have it together. This is not the main issue though
> and
> can handle that at some other time. Right now I just have deceased as a
> option under status.
>
> Thank you so much for your time!
>
> Lyndsey
>
> I should mention I'v just altered the sample contacts template.
>


From: Dennis on 24 Feb 2010 18:28
Lyndsey,

Allen Browne has an article that discusses your issues. I don't know if it
will answer your question or not. Here is the link:

http://allenbrowne.com/AppHuman.html

I've toyed with this idea also for one of my membership databases, but have
not done anything yet.

My thoughts, for what they are worth:

tblFamily Table - like Allen's tblGroup table.
keyed by FamilyNo - Automatic number field
Flds: Family Name
Address
City
St
Name
Head of Household Member Id (foreign key to the tblMember
table).

tblMember Table - Like Allen's tblClient table.
Key: MemberNo - Automatic number field
Flds: Family No
Title (Mr, Ms, Mr & Mrs, etc.)
First Name
Middle Name
Last Name (of just one field for name)
Relation (Head of household, father, mother, son, daughter, etc)
Birthday
Date of Death (if this field is not 0, then person is deceased)
(no use to have a yes/no field AND a date of
death field.
Notes


As for the entry screen:

I've asked the same question on this forum as you did about the data entry
screen and I've not received a good answer.

You could do two separate data entry forms / screen, but that is a data
entry paid.

I think a better option would be to create a Family Form that has a member
sub-form on it.

The top havel of the Family form would allow the user to enter the "Family"
house information. This form would have the tblFamily as it RowSource.

The bottom half of the form would be the Member sub-file form where you
would enter the individual family members. This sub-form would retrieve the
family number from the master form. When the head of house hold member is
entered, this sub-form would set a "head of house hold member id" variable in
the family form

This design is not as flexible as Allen's design because it does not allow
one person to be a member of multiple family as Allen's design does.
However, Allen's design is a bit more work to implement.

As for the deceased information, I would include that information on the
member record just for simplicity.

Which sample template did you modify - Microsoft's?

I would love for other people to add their opinions as I would love to have
an answer to these questions.


If you have more detailed questions, please post them and I will try to
answer them. I have a vested interest in this only because I have the same
question.

If you have problems setting up the form and sub-form (which I did when I
first learned about sub-forms), please post to this question. I've had a LOT
of help for this forum whilel I was working with my software for a local
charity, so I'm happy to help you.


Good luck.

Dennis
From: Stop$teve on 24 Feb 2010 18:29

"Steve" <notmyemail(a)address.com> schreef in bericht news:%230lC3mYtKHA.6140(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Lyndsey,
>
> I would like to offer to create this database for you. The database would include your deceased records. I could provide you the
> database quickly and you could have it up and running in a short time. There would be a modest fee for the database. If you are
> interested, contact me.

What are you doing $teve. ???
Almost everybody here hates you for your advertising...

Desperately seeking work ??
Get lost $teve. Go away... far away....

Again... Get lost $teve. Go away... far away....
No-one wants you here... no-one needs you here...

This newsgroup is meant for FREE help..
No-one wants you here... no-one needs you here...
OP look at http://home.tiscali.nl/arracom/whoissteve.html
(Website has been updated and has a new 'look'... we have passed 11.500 pageloads... it's a shame !!)

Arno R



From: Fred on 25 Feb 2010 17:44
I've databased alot of organizations and wrestled with your issue.

IMHO

The Allen Browne approach referenced by Dennis is very sophisticated,
versatile, powerful & abstract. (that's what you get from someone who is
one of the smartest on the planet at this) Those are 4 things that you might
want to avoid unless you needed them, which you probably don't.

So then the question becomes whether you need a full "two tier" system (with
Families and People both being entities) vs. just "stretching" a one "tier"
system (people). You probably need a two tier system.

And so basically that means do what Dennis said. Except that I think he
misread yo on one point....I think you intended your "head of household"
idea as an alternate to the two tier method.....and so now you don't need it
and he was trying to add it. (or maybe I misread you :-) )

So, recapping, (change all names as desired) make a "Families" table, (PK =
autonumber "FamilyID" field. Make a "People" table with an integer (FK)
"FamilyID" field. Link the 2 "FamilyID" fields.

You main data entry form will be a "Families" form with a datasheet style
"People" subform.

Every person belongs to a family, even if a "Family of One"

So, to enter a person, go to that main form, find or enter their family,
then enter the person in the Person subform.










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