Confusion over Python drivers
in [PgSql]
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From: Greg Smith on 5 Feb 2010 15:51 Bruce Momjian wrote: > While I realize experienced people can easily navigate this confusion... No, that's the worst part--the more you know and the deeper you dig into it, the more broken you realize the whole thing is. When one of the best drivers (in some respects) has a web page that looks like this: http://initd.org/ that doesn't seem so bad at first--but if you're experienced, you know that the page has been in that disturbing state since late 2006. You start digging into the driver mess, figure you just need to learn how things fit together, but the hole keeps getting bigger as you dig. The issues here have already been identified: the Perl DBI is an excellent spec, while the Python one is so weak everybody ends up needing their own extensions to it. And then portability *even among Python PostgreSQL drivers* goes out the window. If somebody built a BSD/MIT licensed driver that replaces every useful feature of all the forks, with no major problems, and a couple of major projects switched over to it (think "Skype" level big), maybe this mess could get resolved. I think it would take someone already familiar with the major issues involved a couple of months of regular work to make any serious progress on it. -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support greg(a)2ndQuadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: James William Pye on 5 Feb 2010 14:08 On Feb 5, 2010, at 8:00 AM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > I think another difference is that the Perl DBI interface is very rich, > whereas the Python DB-API is quite minimal and almost forces people to > write (incompatible) extensions. Yep. > The DB-SIG at Python that ought to drive all this is also quite dead, From reading messages that come into that list(not-so-lately), I've gotten the impression that they are content with DB-API 2. Aside from the TPC interfaces, the last round of activity that I know of was dbapi3[1 (which was a long while ago)]. > possibly because everyone has moved on to SQLAlchemy. Yeah. AFAICT, that is the general direction encouraged by DB-SIG. Write an abstraction on top of DB-API. SQLAlchemy, SQLObject, anysql, and I'm sure there are others. [1] http://wiki.python.org/moin/Aug2001DbApi3Strawman http://wiki.python.org/moin/DbApi3 -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: Jeff Davis on 5 Feb 2010 14:22 On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 09:38 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Wow, that is super-confusing. Agreed. Standardization among licenses is useful, and I think it's important to have a driver with a license that people already understand. Regards, Jeff Davis -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: Bruce Momjian on 5 Feb 2010 13:50 Josh Berkus wrote: > > > The situation is unfortunate, but you might as well argue that too many > > Linux desktops or Linux distributions confuse new users and hurt > > adoption. These alternatives all exist for a reason, and it will be > > difficult to get some of them to abandon their work with the aim of > > reducing the overall "confusion". > > I'm not as concerned about "confusion" as the fact that *all* of the > various Python drivers suck in different, and crippling, ways. I don't > care how many drivers we have, as long as we have at least one 1st-class > driver. Agreed, and we can point newbies to that one great driver. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce(a)momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: James William Pye on 5 Feb 2010 14:54
On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: > For people who use Python a lot, could I have a list of the deficiencies > in DBAPI? I've got my horse and lance ready. > > Given that SQLAlchemy isn't for everyone, of course ... it couldn't be, > or Django would use it, no? Here are some to start with: - paramstyle - No direct support of prepared statements [they *tried* to compensate for this with "cached statements", but it's inadequate] - Too many *optional* extensions (Cursor Method .__iter__() being rather notable) http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0249/ -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers |