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From: Rod Speed on 16 Dec 2008 13:14
Arno Wagner wrote:
> Previously bbbl67 <yjkhan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 15, 9:14 pm, Arno Wagner <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>> Previously Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> What does smartctl from a bootable linux CD show ?
>>>> Well, I don't know if I'm going to be able to convince him to
>>>> bother with Linux, even if it is just a live-CD boot. However,
>>>> I've told him about HD Sentinel, that Arno mentioned, and we'll
>>>> try that one out soon. HD Sentinel is an amazing tool, so far as
>>>> I've been able to see. It not only does a lot of automatic
>>>> analysis of disk states, the authors have also collected a lot of
>>>> information about many USB bridge chips, and it can collect SMART
>>>> data through those chipsets. It's been able to collect SMART data
>>>> off of one of my own external USB-only disks, a Lacie 500GB. Until
>>>> now, I didn't think I'd ever be able to see SMART data come out of
>>>> that external, nor that there was ever any hope of being able to
>>>> see SMART off of it. If it can see SMART off of the Lacie,
>>>> hopefully it'll see it off of the WD MyBook too.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to the results.
>
>> Well, here is the results from HD Sentinel. HDS was able to obtain
>> SMART data off of the WD MyBook both through the USB interface and
>> the Firewire!!! WD's own internal DLGDIAG util was not able to do the
>> Firewire interface, just the USB. HDS is truly the ultimate SMART
>> utility!!!
>
>> Oh and none of the utils could get SMART out of the eSATA on the
>> MyBook. Not even HDS.

> Interesting. Looks like your suspicion that the eSATA is not done right is correct.

Its not likely to be done via a bridge tho, much more likely to be some fuckup in the SATA/eSATA thats
allowing Everest to see that the drive does support SMART but not to get the actual data for some reason.


From: bbbl67 on 16 Dec 2008 20:16
On Dec 16, 1:12 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > It may not be a true passthru in eSATA, it may simply be a virtual
> > passthru from the USB bridge. In other words, the USB bridge might be
> > emulating the eSATA connections and pretending to be the disk, when
> > the actual disk might be sitting behind it.
>
> Yes, that is possible, but like I said, it would be a VERY unusual way to implement it.
>
> Essentially because its a hell of lot easier to do a passthru for eSATA instead.

It would be the easier thing to do, but perhaps the designers wanted
to make sure that somebody didn't try to attach via every interface on
the enclosure? Just because they had a cable for every interface,
someone might decide to attach all of them possibly even to a
different computer in some cases. If somebody tried to go via eSATA
and it was a direct passthru, while at the same time being connected
via Firewire and/or USB then there might be data corruption. With
eSATA a part of the same bridge as USB & FW, it can regulate
transactions.

Yousuf Khan
From: Squeeze on 16 Dec 2008 16:31
Arno Wagner wrote in news:6qq47aFdn1l5U1(a)mid.individual.net
> Previously bbbl67 <yjkhan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 15, 9:14 pm, Arno Wagner <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> > > Previously Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Rod Speed wrote:
> > > > > What does smartctl from a bootable linux CD show ?
> > > > Well, I don't know if I'm going to be able to convince him to bother
> > > > with Linux, even if it is just a live-CD boot. However, I've told him
> > > > about HD Sentinel, that Arno mentioned, and we'll try that one out soon.
> > > > HD Sentinel is an amazing tool, so far as I've been able to see. It not
> > > > only does a lot of automatic analysis of disk states, the authors have
> > > > also collected a lot of information about many USB bridge chips, and it
> > > > can collect SMART data through those chipsets. It's been able to collect
> > > > SMART data off of one of my own external USB-only disks, a Lacie 500GB.
> > > > Until now, I didn't think I'd ever be able to see SMART data come out of
> > > > that external, nor that there was ever any hope of being able to see
> > > > SMART off of it. If it can see SMART off of the Lacie, hopefully it'll
> > > > see it off of the WD MyBook too.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the results.
>
> > Well, here is the results from HD Sentinel. HDS was able to obtain
> > SMART data off of the WD MyBook both through the USB interface and
> > the Firewire!!! WD's own internal DLGDIAG util was not able to do the
> > Firewire interface, just the USB. HDS is truly the ultimate SMART
> > utility!!!
>
> > Oh and none of the utils could get SMART out of the eSATA on the
> > MyBook. Not even HDS.
>
> Interesting. Looks like your suspicion that the eSATA is
> not done right is correct.

In other words, you were found bullshitting again.

>
> Arno
From: Squeeze on 16 Dec 2008 16:45
Rod Speed wrote in news:6qq9guFe5lauU1(a)mid.individual.net
> Arno Wagner wrote:
> > Previously bbbl67 <yjkhan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Dec 15, 9:14 pm, Arno Wagner <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> > > > Previously Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Rod Speed wrote:
> > > > > > What does smartctl from a bootable linux CD show ?
> > > > > Well, I don't know if I'm going to be able to convince him to
> > > > > bother with Linux, even if it is just a live-CD boot. However,
> > > > > I've told him about HD Sentinel, that Arno mentioned, and we'll
> > > > > try that one out soon. HD Sentinel is an amazing tool, so far as
> > > > > I've been able to see. It not only does a lot of automatic
> > > > > analysis of disk states, the authors have also collected a lot of
> > > > > information about many USB bridge chips, and it can collect SMART
> > > > > data through those chipsets. It's been able to collect SMART data
> > > > > off of one of my own external USB-only disks, a Lacie 500GB. Until
> > > > > now, I didn't think I'd ever be able to see SMART data come out of
> > > > > that external, nor that there was ever any hope of being able to
> > > > > see SMART off of it. If it can see SMART off of the Lacie,
> > > > > hopefully it'll see it off of the WD MyBook too.
> > > >
> > > > Looking forward to the results.
> >
> > > Well, here is the results from HD Sentinel. HDS was able to obtain
> > > SMART data off of the WD MyBook both through the USB interface and
> > > the Firewire!!! WD's own internal DLGDIAG util was not able to do the
> > > Firewire interface, just the USB. HDS is truly the ultimate SMART
> > > utility!!!
> >
> > > Oh and none of the utils could get SMART out of the eSATA on the
> > > MyBook. Not even HDS.
>
> > Interesting. Looks like your suspicion that the eSATA is not done right is correct.

> Its not likely to be done via a bridge tho,

It does when it has one of these:
http://www.softconnex.com/products/storage/images/OXUS931SEDiag.jpg

> much more likely to be some fuckup in the SATA/eSATA thats
> allowing Everest to see that the drive does support SMART but not to
> get the actual data for some reason.
From: Rod Speed on 17 Dec 2008 00:37
bbbl67 wrote:
> On Dec 16, 1:12 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It may not be a true passthru in eSATA, it may simply be a virtual
>>> passthru from the USB bridge. In other words, the USB bridge might
>>> be emulating the eSATA connections and pretending to be the disk,
>>> when the actual disk might be sitting behind it.
>>
>> Yes, that is possible, but like I said, it would be a VERY unusual
>> way to implement it.
>>
>> Essentially because its a hell of lot easier to do a passthru for eSATA instead.

> It would be the easier thing to do, but perhaps the designers wanted to make
> sure that somebody didn't try to attach via every interface on the enclosure?

They can still do that without bothering with a bridge for the eSATA.

> Just because they had a cable for every interface, someone
> might decide to attach all of them possibly even to a different
> computer in some cases. If somebody tried to go via eSATA
> and it was a direct passthru, while at the same time being connected
> via Firewire and/or USB then there might be data corruption.

Nope, its trivial to have the bridge not do anything from
the firewire and usb cables if the eSATA cable is active.

> With eSATA a part of the same bridge as USB & FW, it can regulate transactions.

It can even when the eSATA is done by passthru too.


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