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From: Pete Dashwood on 13 Apr 2007 19:38

"Howard Brazee" <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote in message
news:nb4v13hdjpic5jlmqkunkobe5qdt99nc33(a)4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:58:13 +1200, "Pete Dashwood"
> <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>Really? By what strange definition of "competence" does a person standing
>>in a field, decide that his current location is at co-ordinates that are
>>several hundred miles off-shore in the Atlantic Ocean?
>
> Standing in a field is one thing. Outstanding in a field is
> something else.

ROFL!

(Of course, I wouldn't know, having striven for mediocrity throughout ost of
my life... :-))

Pete.


From: Anonymous on 14 Apr 2007 21:30
In article <58amj3F2fva6gU1(a)mid.individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:

[snip]

>But, and this is
>the important point, there are also people in corner offices who are doing
>the very best they can. There are people who are the first to arrive and the
>last to leave, dedicated company people who put heart and soul into their
>jobs and are defined by the work they do. (No, I don't think this is
>healthy, but I'm certainly not going to denigrate these people or tar them
>with the same brush as COIs.)

Mr Dashwood, I waited a bit to respond to this... and I'll try to be as
plain as possible about it.

My views may be tainted by my position, after putting in my mandatory 'two
years' I fell/lied my way into a consulting/contracting/hired gun job...
and I've held those for the decades since. I'm hired - usually - to do a
job and not much else.

Likewise... if the precept is, almost Hippocratically, 'First, Do Your
Job' then it doesn't matter if the people are 'doing the very best they
can' or 'first to arrive and the last to leave, dedicated company people
who put their heart and soul into their jobs'; what matters is, quite
simply, Can They Do Their Jobs?

If they cannot then there might be many reasons for this... one is 'they
are incapable of doing their jobs'. If that is the case then to present
themselves as capable and to collect a salary for a job they cannot do is,
to my eyes, fraud and theft... in the same way as if I were to represent
myself as skilled in Java and .NET and other stuff I don't know.

Yes, I exaggerated my skills for a short while a few decades back... and I
got away with it and the statute of limitations for such has, I believe,
expired. A difference in quantity, however, may make for a difference in
quality - drop a pennyweight from waist-height onto someone's foot and
things more-or-less keep going on as they did, drop a rock weighing a few
stone in a similar manner and someone might be crippled for life - and for
someone to go to work year after year, decade after decade, being able
only to 'do their best' or 'show up first/leave last' when their job is
the allocation, co-ordination and motivation of personnel and resources
towards the accomplishment of a stated Executive goal means that (by this
definition) they are not capable of doing a Manager's job.

To expect consistent and repetitive fraud and theft to be met with the
kind of tolerance, generosity and openness-of-spirit you seem to be
espousing just might be, perhaps, beyond the capabilities of many folks...
myself, maybe, included.

Can you Do Your Job? Good... then do it. Are you incapable of Doing The
Job that you have been assigned? Do not accept the assignment... I've
turned down contracts many times with 'Sorry, my skill-set doesn't include
that', no shame involved. If you must accept the assignment - and I don't
know of too many folks who get told 'be a manager or you'll be fired' then
let it be known, loud and clear, in writing that your skill-set does not
include what is needed to accomplish the task.

Of course... in my experience it doesn't work that way. The variant of
Sturgeon's Law that I apply to folks in *any* job - butcher, baker,
candlestick-maker, doctor, lawyer, cook from New Dehli - is that 10% of
the folks doing that job have what I call 'the touch'... an instinctive,
intuitive grasp of what needs to be done and a delight in Doing It
Right... and the other 90% are busy praying '*Please* don't let me get
found out'... and, at times, busy making sure that nobody around them is
competent enough to see what frauds they are; I believe I've mentioned a
sort of 'Gresham's Law of Management' previously.

I'm not really sure how to wind this up in a memorable fashion... decades
on back I did my Basic Training for the United States Air Force Reserves
in the 3701st Basic Military Training Squadron at Lackland Air Force Base
in San Antonio, Texas, USA... got a tattoo on the one day they allowed us
a Town Pass, but that's another story... anyhow, the motto of our squadron
was a simple 'Lead, Follow or Get Out Of The Way'.

Can one allocate, co-ordinate and motivate (etc, see above)? Good, then
be a Manager.

Can't do that? Stand back, then, and be allocated and co-ordinated...
motivate yourself by the quality of your work.

Can't do either? Don't hinder folks who are just trying to Do Their Jobs.

Lead, Follow or Get Out Of The Way.

DD

From: Pete Dashwood on 14 Apr 2007 22:44

<docdwarf(a)panix.com> wrote in message news:evrv6s$na5$1(a)reader2.panix.com...
> In article <58amj3F2fva6gU1(a)mid.individual.net>,
> Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>But, and this is
>>the important point, there are also people in corner offices who are doing
>>the very best they can. There are people who are the first to arrive and
>>the
>>last to leave, dedicated company people who put heart and soul into their
>>jobs and are defined by the work they do. (No, I don't think this is
>>healthy, but I'm certainly not going to denigrate these people or tar them
>>with the same brush as COIs.)
>
> Mr Dashwood, I waited a bit to respond to this... and I'll try to be as
> plain as possible about it.
>
> My views may be tainted by my position, after putting in my mandatory 'two
> years' I fell/lied my way into a consulting/contracting/hired gun job...
> and I've held those for the decades since. I'm hired - usually - to do a
> job and not much else.
>
> Likewise... if the precept is, almost Hippocratically, 'First, Do Your
> Job' then it doesn't matter if the people are 'doing the very best they
> can' or 'first to arrive and the last to leave, dedicated company people
> who put their heart and soul into their jobs'; what matters is, quite
> simply, Can They Do Their Jobs?
>
> If they cannot then there might be many reasons for this... one is 'they
> are incapable of doing their jobs'. If that is the case then to present
> themselves as capable and to collect a salary for a job they cannot do is,
> to my eyes, fraud and theft... in the same way as if I were to represent
> myself as skilled in Java and .NET and other stuff I don't know.
>
> Yes, I exaggerated my skills for a short while a few decades back... and I
> got away with it and the statute of limitations for such has, I believe,
> expired. A difference in quantity, however, may make for a difference in
> quality - drop a pennyweight from waist-height onto someone's foot and
> things more-or-less keep going on as they did, drop a rock weighing a few
> stone in a similar manner and someone might be crippled for life - and for
> someone to go to work year after year, decade after decade, being able
> only to 'do their best' or 'show up first/leave last' when their job is
> the allocation, co-ordination and motivation of personnel and resources
> towards the accomplishment of a stated Executive goal means that (by this
> definition) they are not capable of doing a Manager's job.
>
> To expect consistent and repetitive fraud and theft to be met with the
> kind of tolerance, generosity and openness-of-spirit you seem to be
> espousing just might be, perhaps, beyond the capabilities of many folks...
> myself, maybe, included.
>
> Can you Do Your Job? Good... then do it. Are you incapable of Doing The
> Job that you have been assigned? Do not accept the assignment... I've
> turned down contracts many times with 'Sorry, my skill-set doesn't include
> that', no shame involved. If you must accept the assignment - and I don't
> know of too many folks who get told 'be a manager or you'll be fired' then
> let it be known, loud and clear, in writing that your skill-set does not
> include what is needed to accomplish the task.
>
> Of course... in my experience it doesn't work that way. The variant of
> Sturgeon's Law that I apply to folks in *any* job - butcher, baker,
> candlestick-maker, doctor, lawyer, cook from New Dehli - is that 10% of
> the folks doing that job have what I call 'the touch'... an instinctive,
> intuitive grasp of what needs to be done and a delight in Doing It
> Right... and the other 90% are busy praying '*Please* don't let me get
> found out'... and, at times, busy making sure that nobody around them is
> competent enough to see what frauds they are; I believe I've mentioned a
> sort of 'Gresham's Law of Management' previously.
>
> I'm not really sure how to wind this up in a memorable fashion... decades
> on back I did my Basic Training for the United States Air Force Reserves
> in the 3701st Basic Military Training Squadron at Lackland Air Force Base
> in San Antonio, Texas, USA... got a tattoo on the one day they allowed us
> a Town Pass, but that's another story... anyhow, the motto of our squadron
> was a simple 'Lead, Follow or Get Out Of The Way'.
>
> Can one allocate, co-ordinate and motivate (etc, see above)? Good, then
> be a Manager.
>
> Can't do that? Stand back, then, and be allocated and co-ordinated...
> motivate yourself by the quality of your work.
>
> Can't do either? Don't hinder folks who are just trying to Do Their Jobs.
>
> Lead, Follow or Get Out Of The Way.

It's a good motto.

Pete.


From: Alistair on 15 Apr 2007 11:14
On 15 Apr, 02:55, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz>
wrote:
>
> > If you pay peanuts you get monkeys
>
> Not necessarily; I have worked with some very bright people who were paid
> peanuts. They may have motivations other than money for working where they
> do.

I always think that if you pay peanuts then you get monkeys working
for you. The more peanuts you poay then the bigger the monkey.

>
> > The need for employers and employees to protect and invest in
> > intellectual property and rights while still managing to do their jobs
> > effectively with several employees and employers.
>
> My approach to this is that they have the full rights to anything I do or
> produce for them while they are paying me, and can use it any way they see
> fit. BUT, this is a non-exclusive right. I NEVER waive my own right to my
> own IP. As for going down the road to their competitors and doing the same
> solution, that's something they just have to suck on. Maybe there's an
> incentive there for them to keep me... :-)
>

You should be aware that in the UK the intellectual property rights
exist with the author unless a waiver has been signed. I have
previously recounted an incident where a contractor refused his
employer the right to amend code that he had written (and he got a
handsome pay cheque for the IP rights). I doubt that many employers
realise the potential problems they face if coders get officious.

I have heard of cases where companies have infringed copyright and/or
IP rights by employing people/teams to write code with matching
functionality to a competitor. Usually this appears to be a case of
using code filched from the competitors' application but it can also
be where the employer has seen the competitors' code and
unintentionally writes the same code in subroutines. To avoid that
particular problem, companies often specifically employ people/teams
that have not had sight of the competitors' code.

I have signed a waiver to IP rights before now simply on the principle
that I doubted that I would ever want to be associated with the
application. Strangely, it is the only system upon which I have worked
that I know is still running.

From: Pete Dashwood on 15 Apr 2007 19:16

"Alistair" <alistair(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1176648406.952042.96450(a)o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On 15 Apr, 02:02, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz>
> wrote:
<snip>>
> BTW, I don't post code (as you correctly observed) as there are others
> who can do better than myself and my ego is fragile enough that it
> wouldn't stand the horse-whipping I would get. I have, however, passed
> code to others via email who I felt would benefit from it and I have
> posted code, for comment, on other newsgroups (Assembler) and that got
> justly critiqued. I would also admit that I feel that I don't have the
> time to post wads of code, as others do. I have work that I have to do
> for others that should take priority but sloth wins out.
>
Fair enough. My comment wasn't meant to wound, just to point out that
programmers write programs and that means producing code.

I was being criticized for appearing not to support programmers when I have
been one all my working life and intend to go on being one.

Pete.


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