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From: The Raven on 11 Feb 2010 16:25 "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message news:hl0hm1$9h1$1(a)news.albasani.net... > Rod Speed wrote: >> Bradfield wrote: >>> "The Raven" <swilson150(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote in message >>> news:4b73b946$0$6096$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... >>>> "Bradfield" <bradfield(a)bradfield.moc> wrote in message >>>> news:hl09aa$cc$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... >>>>> >>>>> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:hl04e0$khl$1(a)news.albasani.net... >>>>>> Bradfield wrote: >>>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed >>>>>>> owners? >>>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a >>>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what >>>>>>> happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could >>>>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it? >>>>>> >>>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have >>>>>> given no information about who the parties are, where they are, >>>>>> the terms of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature. >>>>> >>>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where >>>>>> you buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the >>>>>> corporation that sold you the licence sells the software product >>>>>> to a second corporation, you still retain your rights under the >>>>>> licence. The second corporation buys the software product subject >>>>>> to any licences already given, because the selling corporation >>>>>> usually gives the buying corporation everything it owns concerning >>>>>> the software product, but cannot give more than it owns. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the >>>>> same from me? >>>> >>>> Yes, that's standard practice. Of course, you could probably >>>> terminate the agreement. Take a look for termination clauses. >>>> >>> >>> Yes, but wouldn't terminating the agreement mean I wouldn't have the >>> right to use the software anymore? >> >> Nope, not with your original one off fee. > > Yes, it would. If he could, for some reason, terminate that agreement, > it's at an end and the right to use the software is ended. Usually the license agreement also has several parts and one of these covers any support/maintenance components. Occaisionally, you'll have a software license with a linked maintenance agreement. You can usually terminate the support/maintenance component without terminating the entire license.
From: Epsilon on 11 Feb 2010 16:32 The Raven wrote: > "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message > news:hl0hm1$9h1$1(a)news.albasani.net... >> Rod Speed wrote: >>> Bradfield wrote: >>>> "The Raven" <swilson150(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote in message >>>> news:4b73b946$0$6096$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... >>>>> "Bradfield" <bradfield(a)bradfield.moc> wrote in message >>>>> news:hl09aa$cc$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... >>>>>> >>>>>> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:hl04e0$khl$1(a)news.albasani.net... >>>>>>> Bradfield wrote: >>>>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed >>>>>>>> owners? >>>>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a >>>>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what >>>>>>>> happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could >>>>>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have >>>>>>> given no information about who the parties are, where they are, >>>>>>> the terms of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where >>>>>>> you buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the >>>>>>> corporation that sold you the licence sells the software product >>>>>>> to a second corporation, you still retain your rights under the >>>>>>> licence. The second corporation buys the software product >>>>>>> subject to any licences already given, because the selling >>>>>>> corporation usually gives the buying corporation everything it >>>>>>> owns concerning the software product, but cannot give more than >>>>>>> it owns. >>>>>> >>>>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the >>>>>> same from me? >>>>> >>>>> Yes, that's standard practice. Of course, you could probably >>>>> terminate the agreement. Take a look for termination clauses. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, but wouldn't terminating the agreement mean I wouldn't have >>>> the right to use the software anymore? >>> >>> Nope, not with your original one off fee. >> >> Yes, it would. If he could, for some reason, terminate that >> agreement, it's at an end and the right to use the software is ended. > > Usually the license agreement also has several parts and one of these > covers any support/maintenance components. Occaisionally, you'll have > a software license with a linked maintenance agreement. You can > usually terminate the support/maintenance component without > terminating the entire license. Maybe, but with the OP, it seems both safer and simpler to answer the specific questions. Without the terms of the agreement/licence, it's a lot of guesswork in a hypothetical situation.
From: The Raven on 11 Feb 2010 16:39
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:hl0ik4$auc$1(a)news.albasani.net... > The Raven wrote >> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote >>> Bradfield wrote > >>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners? > >> End users generally aren't permitted to sell their license, > > Wrong, legally. Not wrong, I could provide many signed agreements from and with the Commonwealth which limits on-selling. > > If you bought the software at retail, there in no 'license', you > own what you have bought and can sell it to anyone you like. > You've bought the right to run the product, rarely do you own the actual product. >> however; if it's a takeover/merger then most licensors accept that. > > Doesnt matter what they 'accept', legally. They get to like it or lump it. Sorry Rod, but you're wrong. For the most part, you just can't resell your license to use a software product. > >>> There is no 'license' whatever the floggers of the software claim. Then please explain why the Commonwealth regularly has software license agreements both for their own software and those that they have purchased commerically? > >> In as much as you can't onsell, sub-license, or otherwise resell the >> product. > > Yes you can under australian law when you bought software sold at retail. Retail store bought product may allow that but, it doesn't apply to all software. > >>> The new owner is welcome to use the software. > >>> The previous owner is not legally allowed to keep using the software. > >> You need to review the original license. > > There is no 'license' with software you bought at retail. I'm not sure if the original poster indicated whether he was talking about basic retail software or business type applications (which aren't sold in a retail environment. Funny how Microsoft still have licenses attached to their retail products. > >> If transfer is permitted then it's obviously a case of the old owner no >> longer having the right to use it. > > The purported 'license' is completely irrelevant to your legal rights. It's only irrelevant when it tries to get around your legal rights. If the license is otherwise legal, then it's absolutely relevant. > > That is true in spades of other copyrighted material like a book etc. > >>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software >>>> product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, > >>> Hardly anyone does that. They just buy a retail product. > >> I don't think he's talking about Roddles buying a game from EB. > > It isnt at all clear what he is actually talking about, he keeps changing > the detail. True. > >>>> what happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could >>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it? > >>> Not legally, no. Your agreement was not with Microsoft. > >> They can purchase the rights of the original licensor, > > You havent established with software sold at retail that there is any > licensor. We need to establish if the original poster is talking retail or not. By his descriptions I take it he's not talking retail as few retail products charge periodic fees (presumably for maintenance/support). > >> happens all the time. > > MUCH more often its just bought at retail and you can do anything you like > with > that, just like you can with any other copyrighted material like a book or > DVD etc. > >> What they can't do is change the terms of the license without you >> agreeing. > > You havent established that there is any license at all. You haven't established he's talking retail either. However, some products are sold with licenses agreements ranging from basic click throughs to full blown signed/witnessed agreements (which are recognised by the Commonwealth). > >> So, Rod is right they can't start charging you fees. > >> As for Microsoft agreements, you'll find that most of them are machine >> dependant. > > What Microsoft claims is an entirely separate matter to australian law. Without looking, I'm sure Microsoft agreements take a similar approach as others. I can't recall the exact term for it but most agreements recognise that different locations have different laws. Clauses are usually included that allow for non-legal clauses (for whatever region) to be automatically excluded from the raw license, without invalidating the rest of the license ... |