From: YKhan on
On Jun 1, 11:59 pm, Surfer <n...(a)spam.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 07:53:36 -0700 (PDT), YKhan <yjk...(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On May 31, 8:05 pm, Surfer <n...(a)spam.net> wrote:
> >> So far as I can tell, the predictions are consistent with the results.
>
> >> The predictions are actually very close to those of GR, which is
> >> quite remarkable when you consider that this theory is very much
> >> simpler than GR.
>
> >Okay, now I've read the paper, and I have to admit, I don't understand
> >the math enough to figure out what he's saying. How exactly is what
> >he's saying simpler than GR?
>
> Well for comparison, there is a mathematical derivation of frame
> dragging here, from formulae that are used in GR.http://www.andersoninstitute.com/time-warped-fields.html
>
> It seems to me more complicated than the maths used in Cahill's paper.
>
> Another difference is that in Cahill's theory, space is a physical
> substance that flows into matter, so frame dragging can be visualized
> as a twisting of the flow, as space flows into a rotating mass.

As far as I'm concerned, models comparing space (and time) to fluids
are completely right. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, that which we
call time and space are not even the real background time and space,
it's a flowing substance that we mistake for time and space. We
mistake this substance for time and space because we are part of this
substance, we're like the molecules of this substance, so we have no
independent freedom of movement to explore this. A molecule can only
measure itself in relationship to the next molecule.

> In GR space isn't supposed to flow, so a picture of what happens would
> usually be more abstract.


I think when the entire idea of separate frames of reference was
introduced in Relativity, we were well on our way towards laying the
foundation for the theory of fluidic space. Relativity just didn't go
far enough, that's all.

> I say "usually" because it is possible with GR to use a metric
> consisting of falling frames of reference.  Such a metric then
> resembles a flow of space.

Sure, as I said, we were getting close to the idea of fluidic space
with Relativity, it just didn't go far enough towards that idea.

Einstein's ideas were derived while living inside a relatively calm,
static universe. Pretty much like a perfectly still pond, where the
most upsetting things that ever happens might be an occasional droplet
falls into the pond and may create a simple wave to disturb the
calmness. If our universe were a roiling white-water rapid (like it
must've been during the Big Bang), then Relativity might have evolved
into a different and more complex theory.

Now it's upto later generations to keep probing deeper and further
into the workings of space-time.

> There is an example of that here, with some diagrams that may convey
> the basic idea.
>
> The river model of black holeshttp://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0411060
>
> Hope this helps.
> Surfer

Okay.

Yousuf Khan
From: spudnik on
yes, but your "dynamical 3-space" is just a euphemism; others,
however, choose to believe in an absolute vacuum -- and
that really sucks!

> But turbulence is very difficult to analyse mathematically, so
> my papers mainly deal with simpler cases of non-turbulent flow.

thusNso:
the introduction sounded good; I'll read it, later.
http://research.physics.illinois.edu/qi/photonics/papers/QuantumCakes...

thusNso:
ladies & germs, nature abhors a refractive index equal to 1.0000...,
and I thank Pascal for his dyscovery of it, and
damn Einstein for his damn "photon" reification
of Newton's God-am corpuscle -- so,
let's get on with it!

thusNso:
Michelson and Morely did not get no results,
as has been amply demonstrated by follow-on researchers,
and documented by "surfer" herein.

Minkowsi's silly statement about time & space
--then, he died-- has been hobbling minds, ever since;
it is just a phase-space, clearly elaborated with quaternions
(and the language of "vectors" that Hamilton created thereby .-)

thusNso:
clearly, NeinStein#9 doesn't know what *mathematica* is;
it's not just a "visualization programme" from the Wolframites!
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/LightMill/light-mill.html

Dear Editor;
The staff report on plastic bags, given when SM considered a ban,
before, refused to list the actual fraction of a penny, paid for them
by bulk users like grocers & farmers at markets. Any rational EIR
would show that, at a fraction of a gram of "fossilized fuel (TM)" per
bag, a)
they require far less energy & materiel than a paper bag, and b)
that recycling them is impractical, beyond reusing the clean ones for
carrying & garbage,
as many responsible folks do.

As I stated at that meeting, perhaps coastal communities *should* ban
them -- except at farmers' markets -- because they are such efficient
examples of "tensional integrity," that they can clog stormdrains by
catching all sorts of leaves, twigs & paper. But, a statewide ban is
just too much of an environmental & economic burden.

--Stop British Petroleum's capNtrade rip-off;
tell your legislators, a tiny tax on carbon could achieve the result,
instead of "let the arbitrageurs/hedgies/daytrippers make
as much money as they can on CO2 credits!"
http://wlym.com