Einstein was right - The state of the ether is determined by its connections with the matter [Math]

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From: mpc755 on 14 Jun 2010 21:08

On Jun 14, 6:57 pm, Arindam Banerjee <adda1...(a)bigpond.com> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 8:53 am, Arindam Banerjee <adda1...(a)bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 14, 10:46 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 14, 8:35 am, Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1...(a)gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 14, 10:31 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jun 13, 4:57 pm, use...(a)mantra.com and/orwww.mantra.com/jai(Dr.
>
> > > > > Jai Maharaj) wrote:
> > > > > > Einstein was right: space and time bend
>
> > > > > > Ninety years after he expounded his famous theory, a $700m Nasa probe
> > > > > > has proved that the universe behaves as he said. Now the race is on
> > > > > > to show that the other half of relativity also works
>
> > > > > > By Anushka Asthana and David Smith
> > > > > > The Observer, U.K.
> > > > > > guardian.co.uk
> > > > > > Sunday, April 15, 2007
>
> > > > > > Under his name in the Oxford English Dictionary is the simple
> > > > > > definition: genius. Yet for decades physicists have been asking the
> > > > > > question: did Albert Einstein get it wrong? After half a century,
> > > > > > seven cancellations and $700m, a mission to test his theory about the
> > > > > > universe has finally confirmed that the man was a mastermind -- or at
> > > > > > least half proved it.
>
> > > > > > The early results from Gravity Probe B, one of Nasa's most
> > > > > > complicated satellites, confirmed yesterday 'to a precision of better
> > > > > > than 1 per cent' the assertion Einstein made 90 years ago -- that an
> > > > > > object such as the Earth does indeed distort the fabric of space and
> > > > > > time.
>
> > > > > > But this -- what is referred to as the 'geodetic' effect -- is only
> > > > > > half of the theory. The other, 'frame-dragging', stated that as the
> > > > > > world spins it drags the fabric of the universe behind it.
>
> > > > > > Francis Everitt, the Stanford University professor who has devoted
> > > > > > his life to investigating Einstein's theory of relativity, told
> > > > > > scientists at the American Physical Society it would be another eight
> > > > > > months before he could measure the 'frame-dragging' effect precisely.
>
> > > > > > 'Understanding the details is a bit like an archeological dig,' said
> > > > > > William Bencze, programme manager for the mission. 'A scientist
> > > > > > starts with a bulldozer, follows with a shovel, then finally uses
> > > > > > dental picks and toothbrushes to clear the dust away. We're passing
> > > > > > out the toothbrushes now.'
>
> > > > > > The Gravity Probe B project was conceived in the late 1950s but
> > > > > > suffered decades of delays while other scientists ran tests
> > > > > > corroborating Einstein's theory. It was Everitt's determination that
> > > > > > stopped it being cancelled. The joint mission between Nasa and
> > > > > > Stanford University uses four of the most perfect spheres -- ultra
> > > > > > precise gyroscopes -- to detect minute distortions in the fabric of
> > > > > > the universe. Everitt's aim was to prove to the highest precision yet
> > > > > > if Einstein was correct in the way he described gravity.
>
> > > > > > According to Einstein, in the same way that a large ball placed on a
> > > > > > elasticated cloth stretches the fabric and causes it to sag, so
> > > > > > planets and stars warp space-time. A marble moving along the sagging
> > > > > > cloth will be drawn towards the ball, as the Earth is to the Sun, but
> > > > > > not fall into it as long as it keeps moving at speed. Gravity, argued
> > > > > > Einstein, was not an attractive force between bodies as had been
> > > > > > previously thought.
>
> > > > > > Few scientists need the final results, which will be revealed in
> > > > > > December, to convince them of Einstein's genius. 'From the most
> > > > > > esoteric aspects of time dilation through to the beautiful and simple
> > > > > > equation, e=mc2, the vast bulk of Einstein's ideas about the universe
> > > > > > are standing up to the test of time,' said Robert Massey, from the
> > > > > > Royal Astronomical Society.
>
> > > > > > He said the mission was 'legitimate science' to test a theory and
> > > > > > confirm its brilliance, but others have criticised the costs and
> > > > > > length of the study, claiming that what was announced had already
> > > > > > been shown. Sir Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal, said the
> > > > > > announcement would 'fork no lightning'.
>
> > > > > > The theory explained
>
> > > > > > When Einstein wrote his general theory of relativity in 1915, he
> > > > > > found a new way to describe gravity. It was not a force, as Sir Isaac
> > > > > > Newton had supposed, but a consequence of the distortion of space and
> > > > > > time, conceived together in his theory as 'space-time'. Any object
> > > > > > distorts the fabric of space-time and the bigger it is, the greater
> > > > > > the effect.
>
> > > > > > Just as a bowling ball placed on a trampoline stretches the fabric
> > > > > > and causes it to sag, so planets and stars warp space-time -- a
> > > > > > phenomenon known as the 'geodetic effect'. A marble moving along the
> > > > > > trampoline will be drawn inexorably towards the ball.
>
> > > > > 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html
>
> > > > > "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections
> > > > > with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ...
> > > > > disregarding the causes which condition its state."
>
> > > > > The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the
> > > > > matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the
> > > > > aether's state of displacement.
>
> > > > > Aether and matter are different states of the same material.
> > > > > The material is maether.
> > > > > Maether has mass.
> > > > > Aether and matter have mass.
> > > > > Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether.
> > > > > Aether is displaced by matter.
> > > > > The aether is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
> > > > > The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the aether.
> > > > > Gravity is pressure exerted by displaced aether towards matter.
>
> > > > > Just as a bowling ball placed in a tank of water displaces the water,
> > > > > so does matter displace the aether.
>
> > > > No. Aether permeates everything. Everything moves in aether, and
> > > > aether is in everything.
>
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Arindam Banerjee
>
> > > Correct.
>
> > Good.
>
> > > The aether permeates everything except the nuclei of an atom.
>
> > The volume of actual matter in any atom is very small as a percentage
> > value of the atom size, going by fundamental atomic theory. Matter
> > being defined as a substance capable of being affected by forces,
> > though this is tautological as force is also defined in terms of
> > matter. So ultimately we do not know very much about matter. The
> > most powerful microscopes shows any atom as just a blob.
>
> > > Each and every nuclei which an object consists of displaces the
> > > aether.
>
> > Aether by definition is a solid, which cannot be displaced like a gas
> > or liquid. However, it can be twisted (sheared) and perhaps this is
> > what you mean. Let us say a nucleus shears aether. This may be, or
> > may not be. We cannot know. The aether may also fill the nuclei, which
> > could be porous to the aether.
>
> > > The bowling ball analogy is more accurate if you consider the bowling
> > > ball to consist of millions of tiny particles separated by springs.
>
> > Or held together?
>
> > In
>
> > > this analogy each of the particles which constitute the bowling
> > > displaces the water at the same time the water exists throughout the
> > > bowling ball. The bowling ball which consists of millions of tiny
> > > particles separated by springs still displaces the water.
>
> > Firstly the aether is solid, so it does not get displaced. For a
> > solid is a solid if its components do NOT get displaced with respect
> > to each other - save for temporaray shears. So the analogy is more
> > like putting a sieve with very fine mesh through potato mash. So fine
> > that as the sieve goes through the potato mash, the potato mash
> > remains undisturbed. A bit of mash may twist a bit as the mesh
> > presses it, but reforms after the mesh has passed through. Matter is
> > the sieve, and aether the mash, in this analogy. It is not a good
> > analogy, for potato mash is not that convincing a solid, but may do
> > for the purpose.
>
> > > Just as a bowling ball, consisting of millions of tiny particles
> > > separated by springs, placed in a tank of water displaces the water,
> > > as does matter, which consists of nuclei separated by aether,
> > > displaces the aether.
>
> > No. See above. Solids cannot be displaced, only sheared.
>
> > Just as a void does not remain in the displaced
>
> > > water when the bowling ball is removed due to the pressure exerted by
> > > the water towards the bowling ball, the displaced aether exerts
> > > pressure towards the matter
>
> > The sheared ether is what carries all radiant energies, and this is
> > what we all must accept when we throw out the quantum theoretic
> > nonsense (along with entropy and relativity). By concentrating and
> > basing all future physics upon:
>
> > c(v=V) = c(mu,ep) + V and
> > e=0.5mVV(N-k)
>
> > Once reputed institutes allow me to lecture how right the above are,
> > and how wrong e=mcc is, I can publish my book "The Principles of
> > Motion". One step at a time! Let us throw e=mcc out first, by going
> > through
>
> >http://adda-enterprises.com/MMInt/MMint.htm where the extraordinary
> > bungle made by Einstein is clearly exposed.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Arindam Banerjee
>
> Correcting the title, and posting to sci.math to show how a couple of
> new equations will change human destiny...
>
> Cheers,
> Arindam Banerjee

The aether is a frictionless superfluid and is not an absolutely
stationary space.

'On the super-fluid property of the relativistic physical vacuum
medium and the inertial motion of particles'
http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0701/0701155.pdf

"Abstract: The similarity between the energy spectra of relativistic
particles and that of quasi-particles in super-conductivity BCS theory
makes us conjecture that the relativistic physical vacuum medium as
the ground state of the background field is a super fluid medium, and
the rest mass of a relativistic particle is like the energy gap of a
quasi-particle. This conjecture is strongly supported by the results
of our following investigation: a particle moving through the vacuum
medium at a speed less than the speed of light in vacuum, though
interacting with the vacuum medium, never feels friction force and
thus undergoes a frictionless and inertial motion."

A particle in the super fluid medium displaces the super fluid medium,
whether the particle is at rest with respect to the super fluid
medium, or not. A moving particle creates a displacement wave in the
super fluid medium.

A particle in the aether displaces the aether, whether the particle is
at rest with respect to the aether, or not. The particle could be an
individual nucleus. A moving particle creates a displacement wave in
the aether.

The super fluid medium is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces
back'. The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the displaced
super fluid medium towards the particle.

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

"the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections
with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ...
disregarding the causes which condition its state."

The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the
matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the
aether's state of displacement.

Aether and matter are different states of the same material.
The material is maether.
Maether has mass.
Aether and matter have mass.
Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether.
Aether is displaced by matter.
The aether is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the aether.
Gravity is pressure exerted by displaced aether towards matter.

A moving C-60 molecule has an associated aether displacement wave. The
C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit. The aether wave enters
and exits multiple slits. The aether wave creates interference upon
exiting the slits which alters the direction the C-60 molecule
travels. Detecting the C-60 molecule causes decoherence of the aether
wave and there is no interference.

'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT?
By A. EINSTEIN'
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf

"If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
diminishes by L/c2."

The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three
dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether
and matter is energy.

Mass does not convert to energy. Matter converts to aether. As the
maether transitions from matter to aether it increases in volume. The
physical effect the increase in volume has on the neighboring matter
and aether is energy.

The physical effect of maether decompressing is energy.

Mass is conserved.

The rate at which an atomic clock 'ticks' is based upon the aether
pressure in which it exists. In terms of motion, the speed of a GPS
satellite with respect to the aether causes it to displace more aether
and for that aether to exert more pressure on the clock in the GPS
satellite than the aether pressure associated with a clock at rest
with respect to the Earth. This causes the GPS satellite clock to
"result in a delay of about 7 ìs/day". The aether pressure associated
with the aether displaced by the Earth exerts less pressure on the GPS
satellite than a similar clock at rest on the Earth" causing the GPS
clocks to appear faster by about 45 ìs/day". The aether pressure
associated with the speed at which the GPS satellite moves with
respect to the aether and the aether pressure associated with the
aether displaced by the Earth causes "clocks on the GPS satellites
[to] tick approximately 38 ìs/day faster than clocks on the ground."
(quoted text from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_relativity_on_GPS).

'The Need to Understand Mass'
By Roger Cashmore
Department of Physics
University of Oxford, UK.
http://www.phy.uct.ac.za/courses/phy400w/particle/higgs2.htm

"There is, however, one very clever and very elegant solution to this
problem, a solution first proposed by Peter Higgs. He proposed that
the whole of space is permeated by a field, similar in some ways to
the electromagnetic field. As particles move through space they travel
through this field, and if they interact with it they acquire what
appears to be mass. This is similar to the action of viscous forces
felt by particles moving through any thick liquid. the larger the
interaction of the particles with the field, the more mass they appear
to have. Thus the existence of this field is essential in Higg's
hypothesis for the production of the mass of particles."

The "action of viscous forces felt by particles moving through any
thick liquid" is the particles interaction with the aether. The force
is the pressure exerted by the displaced aether towards the particle.
The "thick liquid" is the aether behaving as a frictionless superfluid
'one something'.

"the larger the interaction of the particles with the field, the more
mass they appear to have." The faster the particle moves with respect
to the aether, the greater the pressure exerted by the displaced
aether towards the particle.

'Politics, Solid State and the Higgs'
By David Miller
Department of Physics and Astronomy
University College, London, UK.
http://www.phy.uct.ac.za/courses/phy400w/particle/higgs3.htm

"1. The Higgs Mechanism
In three dimensions, and with the complications of relativity, this is
the Higgs mechanism. In order to give particles mass, a background
field is invented which becomes locally distorted whenever a particle
moves through it. The distortion - the clustering of the field around
the particle - generates the particle's mass. The idea comes directly
from the physics of solids. Instead of a field spread throughout all
space a solid contains a lattice of positively charged crystal atoms.
When an electron moves through the lattice the atoms are attracted to
it, causing the electron's effective mass to be as much as 40 times
bigger than the mass of a free electron."

The distortion of the background field is the displacement of the
aether by the moving particle. The 'clustering' of the field around
the particle is the 'displacing back'. The 'clustering' of the field
is the pressure exerted by the displaced aether towards the particle.

"The idea comes directly from the physics of solids." The aether
behaves as a frictionless superfluid 'one something'.

In the Casimir Effect, the aether displaced by each of the plates
extends past the other plate, forcing the plates together.

From: mpc755 on 14 Jun 2010 21:13

The aether behaves similar to a frictionless superfluid 'one
something' and is not an absolutely stationary space.

'On the super-fluid property of the relativistic physical vacuum
medium and the inertial motion of particles'
http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0701/0701155.pdf

"Abstract: The similarity between the energy spectra of relativistic
particles and that of quasi-particles in super-conductivity BCS theory
makes us conjecture that the relativistic physical vacuum medium as
the ground state of the background field is a super fluid medium, and
the rest mass of a relativistic particle is like the energy gap of a
quasi-particle. This conjecture is strongly supported by the results
of our following investigation: a particle moving through the vacuum
medium at a speed less than the speed of light in vacuum, though
interacting with the vacuum medium, never feels friction force and
thus undergoes a frictionless and inertial motion."

A particle in the super fluid medium displaces the super fluid medium,
whether the particle is at rest with respect to the super fluid
medium, or not. A moving particle creates a displacement wave in the
super fluid medium.

A particle in the aether displaces the aether, whether the particle is
at rest with respect to the aether, or not. The particle could be an
individual nucleus. A moving particle creates a displacement wave in
the aether.

The super fluid medium is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces
back'. The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the displaced
super fluid medium towards the particle.

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

"the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections
with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ...
disregarding the causes which condition its state."

The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the
matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the
aether's state of displacement.

Aether and matter are different states of the same material.
The material is maether.
Maether has mass.
Aether and matter have mass.
Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether.
Aether is displaced by matter.
The aether is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the aether.
Gravity is pressure exerted by displaced aether towards matter.

A moving C-60 molecule has an associated aether displacement wave. The
C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit. The aether wave enters
and exits multiple slits. The aether wave creates interference upon
exiting the slits which alters the direction the C-60 molecule
travels. Detecting the C-60 molecule causes decoherence of the aether
wave and there is no interference.

'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT?
By A. EINSTEIN'
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf

"If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
diminishes by L/c2."

The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three
dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether
and matter is energy.

Mass does not convert to energy. Matter converts to aether. As the
maether transitions from matter to aether it increases in volume. The
physical effect the increase in volume has on the neighboring matter
and aether is energy.

The physical effect of maether decompressing is energy.

Mass is conserved.

The rate at which an atomic clock 'ticks' is based upon the aether
pressure in which it exists. In terms of motion, the speed of a GPS
satellite with respect to the aether causes it to displace more aether
and for that aether to exert more pressure on the clock in the GPS
satellite than the aether pressure associated with a clock at rest
with respect to the Earth. This causes the GPS satellite clock to
"result in a delay of about 7 ìs/day". The aether pressure associated
with the aether displaced by the Earth exerts less pressure on the GPS
satellite than a similar clock at rest on the Earth" causing the GPS
clocks to appear faster by about 45 ìs/day". The aether pressure
associated with the speed at which the GPS satellite moves with
respect to the aether and the aether pressure associated with the
aether displaced by the Earth causes "clocks on the GPS satellites
[to] tick approximately 38 ìs/day faster than clocks on the ground."
(quoted text from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_relativity_on_GPS).

'The Need to Understand Mass'
By Roger Cashmore
Department of Physics
University of Oxford, UK.
http://www.phy.uct.ac.za/courses/phy400w/particle/higgs2.htm

"There is, however, one very clever and very elegant solution to this
problem, a solution first proposed by Peter Higgs. He proposed that
the whole of space is permeated by a field, similar in some ways to
the electromagnetic field. As particles move through space they travel
through this field, and if they interact with it they acquire what
appears to be mass. This is similar to the action of viscous forces
felt by particles moving through any thick liquid. the larger the
interaction of the particles with the field, the more mass they appear
to have. Thus the existence of this field is essential in Higg's
hypothesis for the production of the mass of particles."

The "action of viscous forces felt by particles moving through any
thick liquid" is the particles interaction with the aether. The force
is the pressure exerted by the displaced aether towards the particle.
The "thick liquid" is the aether behaving as a frictionless superfluid
'one something'.

"the larger the interaction of the particles with the field, the more
mass they appear to have." The faster the particle moves with respect
to the aether, the greater the pressure exerted by the displaced
aether towards the particle.

'Politics, Solid State and the Higgs'
By David Miller
Department of Physics and Astronomy
University College, London, UK.
http://www.phy.uct.ac.za/courses/phy400w/particle/higgs3.htm

"1. The Higgs Mechanism
In three dimensions, and with the complications of relativity, this is
the Higgs mechanism. In order to give particles mass, a background
field is invented which becomes locally distorted whenever a particle
moves through it. The distortion - the clustering of the field around
the particle - generates the particle's mass. The idea comes directly
from the physics of solids. Instead of a field spread throughout all
space a solid contains a lattice of positively charged crystal atoms.
When an electron moves through the lattice the atoms are attracted to
it, causing the electron's effective mass to be as much as 40 times
bigger than the mass of a free electron."

The distortion of the background field is the displacement of the
aether by the moving particle. The 'clustering' of the field around
the particle is the 'displacing back'. The 'clustering' of the field
is the pressure exerted by the displaced aether towards the particle.

"The idea comes directly from the physics of solids." The aether
behaves as a frictionless superfluid 'one something'.

In the Casimir Effect, the aether displaced by each of the plates
extends past the other plate, forcing the plates together.

From: spudnik on 14 Jun 2010 21:32

you do not believe your own ****;
have a nice day & try to dyscuss specifics
of any particular experimental write-up,
viz your so-called theory ... that both
of us can get into better things.

> In the Casimir Effect, the aether displaced by each of the plates
> extends past the other plate, forcing the plates together.

thus&so:
1/9 is, in base-9, 1/10; or 0.10000... so,
what is the canonical digit for base-one?

thus&so:
time obviously doesn't bend, except in a subjective sense
of living & dying, sleeping & waking ... it's too bad
about Schroedinger's joke-cat, though ...
Schroedinger's cat is dead; long-live Schroedinger's cat!

the curvature of space was dyscovered with "synchronized sundials"
by Aristarchus; it was measured in Alsace-Lorraine by Gauss,
with his theodolite & trigonation ... for money, ne'er again!

Dear Editor;
It is apparent from the City ordinance, proposed to ban high-density
polyethylene (HDPE) bags -- excepting take-out at restaurants -- that
it will be a state-wide eco-tax. The "green fee" is slated to be 25
cents for any paper bag from the retailer, grocer or farmer at the
market. This is unfortunate for two reasons, although, as I stated a
year ago in Council, when it first came-up, the super-light-weight &
super-inexpenseve bags (much less than the Staff Report was willing to
concede) are so good at what they do, before they inevitably break-up
& decompose (but , according to the apocrypha & studies of Heal the
Bay etc., HDPEbagsR4ever) that coastal cities may be justified in a
ban,
to prevent stormdrain blockages.

Firstly, just like with "hemp for haemarrhoids," it is not a panacea
or much of an economic stop-gap, if only because "only criminals &
baby-smotherers will have HDPE bags." Really, there are plenty of
natural plastics; "plastic" is really an adjective, as in the plastic
arts! Note also that even plant-derived plastic bags will be banned,
although they are acknowledged to biodegrade.

Secondly, a very small Carbon Tax would be much more realistic than
simply allowing Waxman's CO2 cap & trade nostrum, of letting the
abitrageurs & daytraders raise the price of our energy as much as they
can in the "free market" -- with no provision whatever for government
revenue (contrary to the slogan of "cap & tax" used by Tea Partiers,
"Republicans," and the WSUrinal).

As with the much-greater amount of materiel & energy that is required
for the paper bags, we might do better to ban *low* density
polypropolene bags at department & boutique stores, which are many
times heavier than the HDPE bags. It is surprising that a fifth of
the HDPE bags are recycled, considerng that a) they're only good for
garbage, if they get dirty, and b) they are quite often re-used by
folks; recycling them is an unsanitary joke, though composting might
be educational fun.

The retailers would get ten of the 25 cents, which seems to be a quite
an incentive for the overhead. However, has anyone seen any analysis
on the energy requirements for the "reusable" replacement, and their
importation?

--Sincerely, Brian H.

--Stop BP's/Waxman's arbitragueur-daytripper's delight, cap&trade
(Captain Tax in the feeble minds of Tea Partiers,
"'republicans' R us," and the WSUrinal (and
the latter just l o v e Waxman's '91 cap&trade bill !-))
http://wlym.com

From: mpc755 on 14 Jun 2010 21:34

From: mpc755 on 14 Jun 2010 22:04

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