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From: Andreas Prilop on 30 Mar 2010 12:53
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

>> For Internet Explorer:
>
> *Your* Internet Explorer maybe.

Versions 5, 6, 7. I haven't checked version 8 yet for this case.

>> http://www.user.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/temp/serif.html
>
> That does not mean anything. Internet Explorer allows the user to select
> at least the "Web page font" (proportional font) and the "Plain text font"
> (fixed-width font).

That doesn't matter at all for Internet Explorer at least until v. 7.
Internet Explorer <= 7 takes Times New Roman for "serif" and Courier New
for "monospace", no matter what you have selected.

--
In memoriam Alan J. Flavell
http://www.alanflavell.org.uk/charset/
From: Swifty on 30 Mar 2010 13:44
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:21:25 +0200, Andreas Prilop
<prilop4321(a)trashmail.net> wrote:

>Why don't you tell us which browser is "my browser"?

Because I didn't think it relevant if the problem lay in the CSS,
which given my skills is almost a racing certainty.

It is Opera 10.10, and my test page is at
http://swiftys.org.uk/monospace.html

In order to notice what I'm talking about you need a browser
configured such that text inside <PRE> comes out in a sans-serif font.
Opera does this by specifying the font to be used by "monospace text".
I normally choose Andale Mono or Bitstream Vera Mono.

Then, the surprise is that when you specify "font-family:monospace"
you get Times New Roman. The way I have Opera configured, I don't ever
see Times New Roman unless a page specifies it explicitly.

If there is no error in my CSS, then it seems that Opera thinks that
"font-family:monospace" is not monospace text.

Or more likely, Opera is allowing my CSS to nullify my choice of font
in the browser, and reverting to the defaults that Opera has for
"font-family:monospace". Maybe Opera's attitude is that where the font
family is specified by CSS, it is not specified by my browser default.
Tellingly, I get the font that I've chosen for monospace text in
Firefox, so there is a clear distinction between Opera and Firefox.
Safari agrees with Firefox. My IE6 (required for corporate reasons)
doesn't have a control over monospace font, as far as I know. Maybe
I'll go against the corporate grain, and install IE8.

--
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/swifty.html
http://www.ringers.org.uk
From: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn on 30 Mar 2010 13:49
Andreas Prilop wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> For Internet Explorer:
>>
>> *Your* Internet Explorer maybe.
>
> Versions 5, 6, 7. I haven't checked version 8 yet for this case.

You are mistaken.

>>> http://www.user.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/temp/serif.html
>>
>> That does not mean anything. Internet Explorer allows the user to
>> select at least the "Web page font" (proportional font) and the "Plain
>> text font" (fixed-width font).
>
> That doesn't matter at all for Internet Explorer at least until v. 7.

Yes, it does in my IE 6.0.2800.1106.

> Internet Explorer <= 7 takes Times New Roman for "serif" and Courier New
> for "monospace", no matter what you have selected.

Wrong.


PointedEars
--
realism: HTML 4.01 Strict
evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
madness: XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
-- Bjoern Hoehrmann
From: Jukka K. Korpela on 30 Mar 2010 14:15
Swifty wrote:

> It is Opera 10.10, and my test page is at
> http://swiftys.org.uk/monospace.html

I see no problem with that on my Opera 10.10, assuming you really want code
to appear in a monospace font, which is mostly just an old and bad habit.

> In order to notice what I'm talking about you need a browser
> configured such that text inside <PRE> comes out in a sans-serif font.
> Opera does this by specifying the font to be used by "monospace text".
> I normally choose Andale Mono or Bitstream Vera Mono.

I haven't got those, so I chose Arial, which is surely sans-serif. It's
unnatural, as Airal is not monospace, but I'll do that for testing. No
effect observable, and none was expected, as the page sets the font
explicitly.

> Then, the surprise is that when you specify "font-family:monospace"
> you get Times New Roman.

No, I see some monospace font.

> If there is no error in my CSS, then it seems that Opera thinks that
> "font-family:monospace" is not monospace text.

I thinks this is an issue with Opera. I've mostly lost interest in it when
they removed the simple and nice toggling between author mode and user mode.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

From: Swifty on 30 Mar 2010 16:04
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:15:48 +0300, "Jukka K. Korpela"
<jkorpela(a)cs.tut.fi> wrote:

>I thinks this is an issue with Opera. I've mostly lost interest in it when
>they removed the simple and nice toggling between author mode and user mode.

I agree that it is probably Opera. It remains to be seen if Opera
agrees.

I have a button that does that toggling. Was there something simpler
and nicer?

--
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/swifty.html
http://www.ringers.org.uk
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