Enterprise Guide's command line and your mouse
in [SAS]
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From: xlr82sas on 13 Feb 2010 15:04 Enterprise Guide's command line and your mouse SOAPBOX ON; I support EG for non-programmers. I think this will provide more job opportunities for real programmers. I just think SAS should make it clear that EG is NOT for programmers and should NOT be used by programmers.. Consider: Without fundamental stuctural changes EG will never support the following? Maybe I am getting too old but: 1. I need function keys to map some of the seven buttons on my mouse (EG does not support function keys?) 2. I would like a data step debugger that would allow breakpoints so that you can single step and even try new values for variables. EG does not even support the current debugger 3. Back in the 80's I used a command line editor that supported commands like(from memory - syntax?) change 'roger' 'mary' in 'signature' *change in lines containing 'signature' delete ^'MPRINT' * delete lines that do not contain 'MPRINT' upper '/*' * uppercase lines that contain '/*' and others. 4. My main concern is the loss of command line macros. All of SAS can be executed from the command line and this is very powerful. Incidentally, I did have a programmer ask me 'how do you remember all of this, isn't it easier just to use the pull down menus. I have been giving this a lot of thought and maybe this is why EG will become very popular. Unfortunately I find myself using both the UE(SAS unenhanced editor) and the EE, this is because SAS spends 1,000,000 times the resources on EE than UE. The UE is still my main editor. Although EE has a command line, it is very annoying. For instance if you type 'clear' (or other commands) on the command line, SAS will take you off the command line and put you on line one of the editor, you have to hit home to get back. SOAPBOX OFF;
From: Arthur Tabachneck on 13 Feb 2010 19:12 Roger, I don't need a soap box for this, but I sure hope that the right someone from SAS is listening. EG does, in fact (in my opinion), have some nice features that I would find useful if they were available from base SAS (and, thus, without the limitations you've mentioned on various occasions). You have to remember that not all of us are programmers, but that doesn't mean that there is only one class of non-programmer. Some of us who aren't programmers also want or need an environment that doesn't poses any limitations on what we can currently do. However, would I like the ability for my staff to be able to provide me with an EG-like project that shows (and can run) all steps of a project? YES! As I've mentioned, I agree with you that EG has too many limitations and the fact that it is totally dependent upon how it was installed. In my case, I've never even been able to run it even though it is installed. But, to the point, even dinasours can benefit from new food sources. Art ------------ On Feb 13, 3:04 pm, xlr82sas <xlr82...(a)aol.com> wrote: > Enterprise Guide's command line and your mouse > > SOAPBOX ON; > > I support EG for non-programmers. I think this will provide more job > opportunities for real programmers. > I just think SAS should make it clear that EG is NOT for programmers > and should NOT be used by programmers.. > > Consider: > > Without fundamental stuctural changes EG will never support the > following? > > Maybe I am getting too old but: > > 1. I need function keys to map some of the seven buttons on my > mouse > (EG does not support function keys?) > > 2. I would like a data step debugger that would allow breakpoints > so that you can single step and > even try new values for variables. EG does not even support the > current debugger > > 3. Back in the 80's I used a command line editor that supported > commands like(from memory - syntax?) > > change 'roger' 'mary' in 'signature' *change in lines > containing 'signature' > delete ^'MPRINT' * delete lines that do not > contain 'MPRINT' > upper '/*' * uppercase lines that > contain '/*' > and others. > > 4. My main concern is the loss of command line macros. All of SAS > can be executed from the > command line and this is very powerful. > > Incidentally, I did have a programmer ask me 'how do you remember > all of this, isn't it easier just to use the > pull down menus. I have been giving this a lot of thought and maybe > this is why EG will become very popular. > > Unfortunately I find myself using both the UE(SAS unenhanced editor) > and the EE, this is because > SAS spends 1,000,000 times the resources on EE than UE. The UE is > still my main editor. > > Although EE has a command line, it is very annoying. For instance if > you type 'clear' > (or other commands) on the command line, SAS will take you off the > command line and > put you on line one of the editor, you have to hit home to get > back. > > SOAPBOX OFF;
From: Mary on 15 Feb 2010 11:10 I would like this for the enhanced editor in "regular" PC SAS display manager. Anybody who has done any programming in Visual Basic, such as Excel Visual Basic (I've programmed in PowerBuilder as well) knows that a good debugger can save a great deal of time and allows one to see what the program is actually doing, such as the user who was attempting to do conditional formatting in Proc Report; the debugging capability that SAS currently has is hardly worth using at all. -Mary --- xlr82sas(a)AOL.COM wrote: From: xlr82sas <xlr82sas(a)AOL.COM> To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Enterprise Guide's command line and your mouse Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:04:24 -0800 Enterprise Guide's command line and your mouse SOAPBOX ON; 2. I would like a data step debugger that would allow breakpoints so that you can single step and even try new values for variables. EG does not even support the current debugger SOAPBOX OFF;
From: montura on 16 Feb 2010 08:42 I think Art's perspective pretty much defines the problem. SI still pushes R&D efforts to accommodate non-programmers and big- ticket solutions like SAS/BI, SAS/RD, etc. I switched over to CLASS programming in SCL because I can create a ton of messages for application control and I can create main drivers that trigger of such messages and data - simple data step / macro does not and will never provide fine grained control that is needed in complex / multi-step applications. Breakpoints are easy to insert and control. It's not anywhere near as good as the visuals from VB and Excel but with a few customized tools it comes close. Now, I only use EE and UE when I test SQL logic and complex SCL or Base/SAS logic. WhenI talk to certain people I notice ignorace that EG was not designed to be a developers main tool, it was designed from the start to be a tool for the non-technical analyst. Many hiring managers think EG is the latest and greatest tool for their advanced programming needs. This makes me wonder what people at SI use for debugging? Anyone have that? SoapBox complaints will likely not be addressed, heard, or even considered by The One who makes decisions at HQ in Cary, North Carolina. Perhaps SAS programmers are considered 2nd rate business items? I believe it will take a lot of money making potential to stir multi-millionairs out of their Fat-and-Happy Slumber time. Silly / goofy things like development tools for production programmers will probably remain on the list entitled "not worthwhile". :o) Have a nice day!
From: oloolo on 16 Feb 2010 11:47 right, I just don't understand why SAS can't improve the Enhanced Editor with more debugging capability. To clear way for EG? On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:10:50 -0800, Mary <mlhoward(a)AVALON.NET> wrote: >I would like this for the enhanced editor in "regular" PC SAS display manager. Anybody who has done any programming in Visual Basic, such as Excel Visual Basic (I've programmed in PowerBuilder as well) knows that a good debugger can save a great deal of time and allows one to see what the program is actually doing, such as the user who was attempting to do conditional formatting in Proc Report; the debugging capability that SAS currently has is hardly worth using at all. > >-Mary > >--- xlr82sas(a)AOL.COM wrote: > >From: xlr82sas <xlr82sas(a)AOL.COM> >To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >Subject: Enterprise Guide's command line and your mouse >Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:04:24 -0800 > >Enterprise Guide's command line and your mouse > >SOAPBOX ON; > >2. I would like a data step debugger that would allow breakpoints so that you can single step and even try new values for variables. EG does not even support the >current debugger > > SOAPBOX OFF;
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