European physicists already begging for next big accelerator
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From: Yousuf Khan on 20 Jul 2010 09:17 The $6.7B ILC is supposed to be the successor to the LHC. Yousuf Khan Forget the Large Hadron Collider. All hail Cern's new, straight-line atom smasher - World news, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk "After decades of bending atoms around giant rings and smashing them apart in search of the secrets of the universe, scientists at Cern, the European particle physics laboratory outside Geneva, are reviving a 1960s technology and going straight. Their latest ring, the 27km Large Hadron Collider (LHC), only got up to speed in March, yet physicists meet in Paris this week to discuss plans for a new $6.7bn (�4.4bn) experiment � the International Linear Collider (ILC), which they hope to start building in 2012. The new machine will be a straight-line tunnel, 31km long, and will use super-conducting magnets to accelerate electrons and positrons, their antimatter equivalents, towards each other at close to the speed of light." http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/forget-the-large-hadron-collider-all-hail-cerns-new-straightline-atom-smasher-14880892.html#
From: Y.Porat on 20 Jul 2010 10:12 On Jul 20, 3:17 pm, Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: > The $6.7B ILC is supposed to be the successor to the LHC. > > Yousuf Khan > > Forget the Large Hadron Collider. All hail Cern's new, straight-line > atom smasher - World news, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk > "After decades of bending atoms around giant rings and smashing them > apart in search of the secrets of the universe, scientists at Cern, the > European particle physics laboratory outside Geneva, are reviving a > 1960s technology and going straight. > > Their latest ring, the 27km Large Hadron Collider (LHC), only got up to > speed in March, yet physicists meet in Paris this week to discuss plans > for a new $6.7bn (£4.4bn) experiment the International Linear Collider > (ILC), which they hope to start building in 2012. > > The new machine will be a straight-line tunnel, 31km long, and will use > super-conducting magnets to accelerate electrons and positrons, their > antimatter equivalents, towards each other at close to the speed of light.."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/forget-the-large-ha... ------------------ and who is going to pay for the stupid mistakes of fucker cheating dumb physicists that waist time and money of poor tax payers ??? Y.Porat ---------------------
From: PD on 21 Jul 2010 10:38 On Jul 20, 9:12 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 20, 3:17 pm, Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > The $6.7B ILC is supposed to be the successor to the LHC. > > > Yousuf Khan > > > Forget the Large Hadron Collider. All hail Cern's new, straight-line > > atom smasher - World news, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk > > "After decades of bending atoms around giant rings and smashing them > > apart in search of the secrets of the universe, scientists at Cern, the > > European particle physics laboratory outside Geneva, are reviving a > > 1960s technology and going straight. > > > Their latest ring, the 27km Large Hadron Collider (LHC), only got up to > > speed in March, yet physicists meet in Paris this week to discuss plans > > for a new $6.7bn (£4.4bn) experiment the International Linear Collider > > (ILC), which they hope to start building in 2012. > > > The new machine will be a straight-line tunnel, 31km long, and will use > > super-conducting magnets to accelerate electrons and positrons, their > > antimatter equivalents, towards each other at close to the speed of light."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/forget-the-large-ha.... > > ------------------ > and who is going to pay > for the stupid mistakes of fucker > cheating dumb physicists > that waist time and money > of poor tax payers ??? > > Y.Porat Three comments: 1. As far as I know, Israel makes no contributions to the construction of large accelerator facilities, so your tax dollars are not being wasted. 2. I don't see why you'd want to argue about what is being done with MY tax dollars, since I vote on candidates who I think will be the best stewards of my tax dollars, and I don't need your advice on how to do that. 3. You've repeatedly asked people to look for circlons, and since they haven't been found at any previous machines, I'd think you'd be in favor of any machine that would allow their discovery. If you think that a new machine is not necessary to find circlons, then you should indicate at what energy scale you would expect them to be found and what their experimental signature would be at existing machines. PD
From: Y.Porat on 21 Jul 2010 11:18 On Jul 21, 4:38 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 20, 9:12 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 20, 3:17 pm, Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > The $6.7B ILC is supposed to be the successor to the LHC. > > > > Yousuf Khan > > > > Forget the Large Hadron Collider. All hail Cern's new, straight-line > > > atom smasher - World news, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk > > > "After decades of bending atoms around giant rings and smashing them > > > apart in search of the secrets of the universe, scientists at Cern, the > > > European particle physics laboratory outside Geneva, are reviving a > > > 1960s technology and going straight. > > > > Their latest ring, the 27km Large Hadron Collider (LHC), only got up to > > > speed in March, yet physicists meet in Paris this week to discuss plans > > > for a new $6.7bn (£4.4bn) experiment the International Linear Collider > > > (ILC), which they hope to start building in 2012. > > > > The new machine will be a straight-line tunnel, 31km long, and will use > > > super-conducting magnets to accelerate electrons and positrons, their > > > antimatter equivalents, towards each other at close to the speed of light."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/forget-the-large-ha.... > > > ------------------ > > and who is going to pay > > for the stupid mistakes of fucker > > cheating dumb physicists > > that waist time and money > > of poor tax payers ??? > > > Y.Porat > > Three comments: > 1. As far as I know, Israel makes no contributions to the construction > of large accelerator facilities, so your tax dollars are not being > wasted. i ddint say it is my money waisted i speak as a citisen of this word that is now a major economic crysis yet whie i see that so muchmoney is waited about silly physics looking for things like Higgs Bosons it ios hard for me to sit still and not bring my oppoinion about it just my humble opinion !!! and as you know no one is giving a damn about what i say (even not Inertial Artful etc etc (:-)) so actually i cant do any harm with my say anyway .... ----------------- > 2. I don't see why you'd want to argue about what is being done with > MY tax dollars, since I vote on candidates who I think will be the > best stewards of my tax dollars, and I don't need your advice on how SO GO ON WITH YOUR ADVICES AND WE WILL SEE HOW FAR YOU WILL GO WITH FOR INSTANCE MASSLESS PARTICLES ETC ETC !! > 3. You've repeatedly asked people to look for circlons, and since they > haven't been found at any previous machines, I'd think you'd be in > favor of any machine that would allow their discovery. DID ANY ONE OF THOSE LEADERS EVER HEARD ABOUT MY CIRCLON (:-) I BET NY HAD THAT NO ONE EVER HEARED ABOUT IT THEY ARE BORN AS PARROTS THAT ARE SURE THAT ALL GODS INTELLIGENCE IS IN THEIR MATHEMATICAL HEADS !! actaully my complain is WHY NO ONE OF THEM REALIZED BEFORE THAT A LINEAR ACCELERATOR WOULD BEMUCH SIMPLER MUCH LESS 'TACKELS ' BECAUSE THEY DDIDNT HEARE THAT A STRIGHT LINE MOVEMENT IS MUCH SIMPLER AND MUCH LESS TROIUBLE MAKING THAN CIRCULAR! imust confess that i imamagined that such a liner acceleration is impossible in a straight t line machine and tha tis why they doit in a circular machine yet ***i ***ddint know it ! BUT THOSE 'EXPERTS SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IT !!! and i i understand from the little information about it need actually a muchsmaller tunel than that 30 KM one !!! is it not that they should know it at the first place ?? wasing all those billions and suc a big wasit of time as well it is that no one there has to takwe responsibility for wrong decisions that cost billions ??? --------- If you think > that a new machine is not necessary to find circlons, then you should > indicate at what energy scale you would expect them to be found and please dont understand me wrong !!: a i am not at all against that new machine i actually said years before that economic fusion should be done i n asmjuch as possible -- linear counter acceleration (actually a bit more complicated than that accelerator witth the raw material as net Protons!! and not D T ...which is ways more expensive !! but that is another Opera ..... and mind you that is based on the knowledge i acquired working on my nuclear model ..... ----------------- > what their experimental signature would be at existing machines. ------ the Circlon s is according to me TH E MOST TINY BASIC PARTICLE THAT EXISTS SO IT NEEDS THE BIGGER ENERGY COLLISION THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED you should fine there very basic particles that move in a circular (or curved ) path that cannot be explained by any current theory !! (if it is explained by another theory -- welcome !!) > > PD BTW i wonder if you have any 'say' there ??? ATB Y.Porat -------------------------------------------
From: PD on 21 Jul 2010 12:11
On Jul 21, 10:18 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 21, 4:38 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 20, 9:12 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 20, 3:17 pm, Yousuf Khan <bbb...(a)spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > The $6.7B ILC is supposed to be the successor to the LHC. > > > > > Yousuf Khan > > > > > Forget the Large Hadron Collider. All hail Cern's new, straight-line > > > > atom smasher - World news, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk > > > > "After decades of bending atoms around giant rings and smashing them > > > > apart in search of the secrets of the universe, scientists at Cern, the > > > > European particle physics laboratory outside Geneva, are reviving a > > > > 1960s technology and going straight. > > > > > Their latest ring, the 27km Large Hadron Collider (LHC), only got up to > > > > speed in March, yet physicists meet in Paris this week to discuss plans > > > > for a new $6.7bn (£4.4bn) experiment the International Linear Collider > > > > (ILC), which they hope to start building in 2012. > > > > > The new machine will be a straight-line tunnel, 31km long, and will use > > > > super-conducting magnets to accelerate electrons and positrons, their > > > > antimatter equivalents, towards each other at close to the speed of light."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/forget-the-large-ha... > > > > ------------------ > > > and who is going to pay > > > for the stupid mistakes of fucker > > > cheating dumb physicists > > > that waist time and money > > > of poor tax payers ??? > > > > Y.Porat > > > Three comments: > > 1. As far as I know, Israel makes no contributions to the construction > > of large accelerator facilities, so your tax dollars are not being > > wasted. > > i ddint say it is my money waisted > i speak as a citisen of this word > that is now a major economic crysis > yet whie i see that so muchmoney is waited about silly > physics looking for things like Higgs Bosons or circlons? Here's the thing. The machine isn't specifically designed to find the Higgs and only the Higgs. It is a discovery machine, capable of discovering a lot of different things. So you have to decide whether machines capable of discovering subatomic particles are silly in general. If you think so, then you also have to be careful to not be a hypocrite, and also say that any machine that is capable of finding circlons is also not worth investing in. > it ios hard for me to sit still and not bring my oppoinion about it > just my humble opinion !!! > and as you know > no one is giving a damn about what i say > (even not Inertial Artful etc etc (:-)) > so actually i cant do any harm with my say > anyway .... It's not a matter of whether you will have any influence. Believe me, posting on a science newsgroup will NEVER have any influence on the course of scientific investigation, no matter who is doing the posting. It's a matter of whether you are consistent in your position and careful about what you say. > ----------------- > > > 2. I don't see why you'd want to argue about what is being done with > > MY tax dollars, since I vote on candidates who I think will be the > > best stewards of my tax dollars, and I don't need your advice on how > > SO GO ON WITH YOUR ADVICES AND > WE WILL SEE HOW FAR YOU WILL GO > WITH > FOR INSTANCE > MASSLESS PARTICLES ETC ETC !! Yes, I suppose we will. > > > 3. You've repeatedly asked people to look for circlons, and since they > > haven't been found at any previous machines, I'd think you'd be in > > favor of any machine that would allow their discovery. > > DID ANY ONE OF THOSE LEADERS > EVER HEARD ABOUT MY CIRCLON (:-) > > I BET NY HAD > THAT NO ONE EVER HEARED ABOUT IT Hearing about it is up to you. You have the burden of making the idea developed enough to be worth consideration, and then publishing it where the leaders look for ideas. If you just leave it as a qualitative germ of an idea and only publish it on your own web page, then you are not going to get noticed. But that's YOUR problem. > > THEY ARE BORN AS PARROTS > THAT ARE SURE THAT ALL GODS INTELLIGENCE IS IN THEIR MATHEMATICAL > HEADS !! > actaully my complain is > WHY NO ONE OF THEM REALIZED BEFORE > THAT A LINEAR ACCELERATOR WOULD BEMUCH SIMPLER > MUCH LESS 'TACKELS ' > BECAUSE THEY DDIDNT HEARE > THAT A STRIGHT LINE MOVEMENT > IS MUCH SIMPLER AND MUCH LESS > TROIUBLE MAKING THAN CIRCULAR! Do you know WHY some accelerators are circles? I'll give you a hint. In a linear accelerator, you need acceleration cavities (RF cavities and klystrons) the entire length. This is HUGELY expensive. In a circular accelerator, you only need a short chain of acceleration cavities at one segment of the circle, but you pass the same particle around and around and around, perhaps a million times. So you save money by about a factor of a million by reusing the same expensive acceleration cavities a million times. > > imust confess that i imamagined that > such a liner acceleration is impossible > in a straight t line machine and tha tis why they doit in a circular > machine > yet > ***i ***ddint know it ! > BUT THOSE 'EXPERTS SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IT !!! There ARE linear accelerators. Lots of them. You can Google "linac" if you like. There's a dandy one out in California that's quite famous. > > and i i understand from the little information about > it need actually a muchsmaller tunel than that 30 KM one !!! No, it's actually quite a bit LONGER. > is it not that they should know it at the first place ?? > wasing all those billions and suc a big wasit of time as well > it is that no one there has to takwe responsibility > for wrong decisions that cost billions ??? Any machine capable of finding circlons will cost billions. Still want to have circlons looked for? > --------- > > If you think > > > that a new machine is not necessary to find circlons, then you should > > indicate at what energy scale you would expect them to be found and > > please dont understand me wrong !!: > > a i am not at all against that new machine > > i actually said years before that > economic fusion should be done > i n asmjuch as possible -- linear counter acceleration > (actually a bit more complicated than that accelerator > witth the raw material as net Protons!! > and not D T ...which is ways more expensive !! > > but that is another Opera ..... > > and mind you that is based on the knowledge i acquired > working on my nuclear model ..... > -----------------> what their experimental signature would be at existing machines. > > ------ > the Circlon s is according to me > TH E MOST TINY BASIC PARTICLE THAT EXISTS > SO > IT NEEDS THE BIGGER ENERGY COLLISION THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED And this requires a bigger machine. Costs billions. > you should fine there > very basic particles that move in a circular > (or curved ) path > that cannot be explained by any current theory !! > (if it is explained by another theory -- > welcome !!) > > > > > PD > > BTW i wonder if you have any 'say' there ??? > > ATB > Y.Porat > -------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - |