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From: RodMcKay on 15 Nov 2009 13:24
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:15:01 -0500, TJ <TJ(a)noneofyour.business> wrote:

>RodMcKay wrote:
>
>>
>> I've had programs trickling in at the back of my mind that I
>> absolutely need to find Linux equivalents for. I was forgetting my
>> Paint Shop Pro which I absolutely adore. Gimp is _not_ nice! <g>
>>
>Gimp is a lot more powerful than it often gets credit for. The main
>thing is, it has a user interface that's very different than other image
>manipulators, and it takes some getting used to. One place you might
>want to look at is http://meetthegimp.org/ This site has a series of
>weekly video podcasts on using The Gimp, starting with the most basic of
>functions and proceeding to the more advanced stuff. All "episodes" are
>available for download. Be sure to start with #1 by clicking on the "Get
>all videos" link on the home page. By the time you get through all 120+
>episodes, you should be very comfortable with the Gimp interface.

You know, you're right. I'm thinking that if I can find a way to make
it so that I don't have those holes in the interface (I hate those
open backgrounds, Ultimate Paint is like that, too <yech>) and perhaps
plugins to get around some of the clunky procedures issues I had with
it, I think that I could make the switch. I keep forgetting the
troubles I had with Paint Shop Pro until I created a customized
workspace, perhaps there's the ability to do the same in GIMP. I'll
check it out.

Thx.

>> Anyway, lots of research to do. Trouble is that although I'm a power
>> user and have years of taking care of my own system, Linux is far out
>> in left field for me so I still see a large learning curve ahead. My
>> limited exposure to Linux makes me very hopeful though.
>>
>Don't believe all the "learning curve" hype. How long did it take you to
>learn enough about Windows to become a power user? Years, I'll bet. It
>won't take nearly as long to become comfortable with Linux. New users
>who never touched a computer don't take any more time to learn enough to
>use Linux than they do to learn Windows. IMHO, the learning curve from
>Linux to Windows would be MUCH steeper than the other way around. Of
>course, since so few would do such a crazy thing, practically no studies
>have been done.

<rofl> Very true!

>> _Anything_, practically, to get away from Window$. :oD
>>
>Amen.
>
>TJ

From: J.O. Aho on 15 Nov 2009 13:29
RodMcKay wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:44:34 +0100, "J.O. Aho" <user(a)example.net>
> wrote:

>>> I've had programs trickling in at the back of my mind that I
>>> absolutely need to find Linux equivalents for. I was forgetting my
>>> Paint Shop Pro which I absolutely adore. Gimp is _not_ nice! <g>
>> If you don't like Gimp which IMHO is quite good, except it's GTK based, you
>> can try Pixel and can be found at http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/
>
> I just found some of the processes difficult to transition to. Once
> you're used to one type of interface, adapting to another is tough, as
> anyone knows. Also, the "open" interface is one I've never been
> comfortable with. I really get distracted with seeing other windows
> in between portions of the type of interface GIMP uses, so that
> doesn't help.

Just run GIMP on it's own virtual desktop and the other application on another
virtual desktop. Myself I run different application on different virtual
desktops, that way they don't mess up with each other.


> I'm actually going to head over to a couple of GIMP ngs and forums and
> take a look around. Perhaps there are plugins that get around some of
> the interface/process issues. I remember having to take several steps
> to do something in it, as well, that only require one step in other
> image apps, so if there are ways to customize it, perhaps that might
> be the avenue to explore.

You can build your own scripts to do things for you, never done that myself as
I don't do much with GIMP more than resize and sometimes add some small things.


--

//Aho
From: Aragorn on 15 Nov 2009 15:42
On Sunday 15 November 2009 19:11 in alt.os.linux, somebody identifying
as RodMcKay wrote...

> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:44:34 +0100, "J.O. Aho" <user(a)example.net>
> wrote:
>
>> RodMcKay wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:51:43 +0000, Maurice Batey
>>> <maurice(a)nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:09:29 -0500, RodMcKay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was told initially that Linux had to be put on a system that was
>>>>> formatted to FAT32.
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely not so! Linux has its own excellent file systems, and
>>>> can use FAT32.
>>>>
>>>> Because Microsoft would not release sufficient details of their
>>>> NTFS file system architecture, it was not 100% safe for Linux to
>>>> write to an NTFS file system (though I believe there are now few
>>>> remaining problems) so when some of us needed to keep information
>>>> that could be accessed by both Windows and Linux, we kept it on a
>>>> FAT32 (a.k.a. VFAT) partition.
>>>
>>> Yes, but FAT32 is the problem. I didn't realize there were others
>>> besides FAT32 and NTFS. FAT32's size problems with larger drives
>>> was for me a serious drawback to Linux. Though I'm not sure I'm
>>> understanding correctly, FAT32 is only necessary if you're going to
>>> dual-boot (?). If I'm understanding correctly, you can format to
>>> another file system for Linux that _does_ support the >30 gig drives
>>> (?).
>>
>> vfat supports up to 8TiB large partitions with max 4GiB file size.
>> It's microsoft windows which have had limitations on hard drive sizes
>> and of course the hardware used.
>>
>> You should never use vfat as the file system to install Linux on
>> (even if it is possible), as you will loose all the multi user
>> privileges, as vfat is a single user no privileges type of file
>> system, one of the worst file system ever created. The only time you
>> use vfat in Linux is when you mount that vfat formated mp3, memory
>> stick, camera, your friends usb hard drive... the same applies to
>> ntfs which supports partitions up to 16TiB and files up to 16TiB.
>>
>> [...]
>> Just drop that vfat thing completely.
>
> Excellent. Thank you. I think I can lay this whole FAT32/NTFS thing
> to rest. I'm so pleased. I just knew at the back of mind that
> something must be wrong. Linux would not be where it is today if
> these issues were indeed true.

Also please bear in mind that a lof of what you hear about GNU/Linux is
deliberate FUD ("Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt") spread either by MICROS~1
directly through their websites or anything from slight innuendo to
outright lies in interviews with senior MICROS~1 staff, or spread by
paid MICROS~1 shills on Usenet.

The latter is an area they have a longstanding reputation in, dating
back to the days of the OS/2 newsgroups on Usenet when Usenet was still
running off BBS machines, long before the internet was released to the
public. I would advise you in this regard to do a Google search
on "the Barkto incident".

Of course, these were incidents in which MICROS~1 was sloppy enough to
leave evidence floating around, but bear no mistake: they are still
doing it, albeit in a much more refined way. I have personally already
encountered and confronted a few MICROS~1 shills in various GNU/Linux
newsgroups - and I am not talking of comp.os.linux.advocacy, because
that would be too obvious; the enemies of GNU/Linux who reside there
are simply hyperconservative and ultrarightwinged Wintendo zealots who
absolutely hate GNU/Linux and think that Wintendo is the greatest
invention since sliced bread - and when confronted and thus exposed,
these individuals rapidly disappear from the newsgroup or change their
posting pseudonym.

They typically also don't participate in every thread but will single
out just one or possibly two threads in which the original poster is a
very obvious newbie looking for answers. The shills will then move in
witch great subtlety, pretending to be very helpful and friendly, and
overwhelming the newbie with a plethora of (pseudo-)technical
information - of which they know that the newbie is insufficiently
skilled to ascertain the validity - which in the end always makes
Wintendo seem "just a little bit better" than GNU/Linux.

I guess we can only surmise that, if MICROS~1 is going to such great
lengths to make GNU/Linux look bad that they have to infiltrate
GNU/Linux-related newsgroups and tell outright lies, then yes,
GNU/Linux must be that good. And well, yes, it is. ;-)

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
From: Snowbat on 18 Nov 2009 12:52
[alt.linux.redhat removed due my provider limiting crossposts to 4 groups]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:24:57 -0500, RodMcKay wrote:

> You know, you're right. I'm thinking that if I can find a way to make
> it so that I don't have those holes in the interface (I hate those open
> backgrounds

Single window mode will be an option in GIMP 2.8
http://www.gimpusers.com/news/2009-09-19/single-window-mode-gimp-2-8-confirmed.html
From: RodMcKay on 19 Nov 2009 05:47
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:52:33 GMT, Snowbat <snowbat(a)geocities.com>
wrote:

>[alt.linux.redhat removed due my provider limiting crossposts to 4 groups]
>
>On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:24:57 -0500, RodMcKay wrote:
>
>> You know, you're right. I'm thinking that if I can find a way to make
>> it so that I don't have those holes in the interface (I hate those open
>> backgrounds
>
>Single window mode will be an option in GIMP 2.8
>http://www.gimpusers.com/news/2009-09-19/single-window-mode-gimp-2-8-confirmed.html

There, isn't that great? The best of both worlds for everyone, those
who want it can have it, those who don't, don't have to use it!
That's the way it should be and that's what customizing should mean,
the broadest available means of satisfying everyone!

Don't know if this is a conception drawing or an actual one of the
single window mode, but here's what it might look like (posted dated
Sunday, October 4, 2009):
http://www.chromecode.com/
picture by itself:
http://www.chromecode.com/temp/gimp-single-window-mode-in-progress.png

Hopefully each component can be docked _anywhere_, too, and we're not
forced to the exact view as shown in the above picture.

As I mentioned briefly, I couldn't get a handle on PSP until I was
able to customize my workspace exactly as I needed it. The problem
with PSP is tutorials on the net were written for versions 5 and up
and each had different locations for the steps so it was a nightmare
until I personally located where I wanted, say, gaussian blur to go.
Then was able to learn PSP since it didn't matter where the tutorial
said it was for a particular version, I just went to where I put it.

This is very promising for GIMP. I foresee no real difficulties using
it now! Best news possible <g>

No release date yet, but one post said they believed it would come out
this year. I can live with the GIMP versions usu. found on Linux
LiveCDs until then. By then I'll have probably dumped Window$ for
good at home and installed Linux permanently <crossing fingers>.

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