FTL or Mutual Time Dilation ?
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From: BURT on 27 Jul 2010 17:48 On Jul 27, 9:32 am, Hayek <haye...(a)nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote: > FTL or Mutual Time Dilation ? > > Which belongs to fact and which belongs to fiction ? > > The players : > Ann - the stay at home twin - clock points at 2025 > Betty's time is 2023. > > Betty - the traveling twin - clock points at 2023 > Ann's time is 2021 > > Enter mutual time dilation and ftl : > Ann sends ftl message to Betty, message arrives in 2003. > Betty retransmits message to Ann, message arrives in > 2001. Causality destroyed. > > This is under the assumption that for Ann, Betty is > still in 2003 and that for Betty, Ann is still in 2001. > > There is another, much more simple explanation : they > are still both in the same now, let us take the Earth's > time as a reference, 2005, but Betty's molecules have > just moved slower (imnsho because of higher inertia), > just as she would have as being in some cryogenic system. > > In this context : Ann ftl-calls Betty and realizes that > her speech is gamma times slower, Betty notices that Ann > speech is gamma times faster. Ftl works just fine, only > the phone bills are too high. > > What is the greater science fiction, ftl or mutual time > dilation, the latter giving rise to time travel and > causality breaches ? > > Ftl does not breach causality, MTD (mutual time > dilation) does. > > MTD = Science Fiction. > > Uwe Hayek. > > -- > We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate > inversion : the stage where the government is free to do > anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by > permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of > human history. -- Ayn Rand > > I predict future happiness for Americans if they can > prevent the government from wasting the labors of the > people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- > Thomas Jefferson. > > Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of > ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue > is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill. How can there be mutual time dilation when one ages faster than the other? I can show that lost time doesn't always work as an explanation and because of that lost time is ruled out. This rules out Relativity, Mitch Raemsch
From: eric gisse on 27 Jul 2010 17:56 Hayek wrote: [...] >> FTL cannot be verified. > Then neither can MTD. a) it has b) what you say does not logically follow [...]
From: whoever on 27 Jul 2010 20:09 >"Hayek" wrote in message news:4c4f0a2c$0$22935$e4fe514c(a)news.xs4all.nl... > >FTL or Mutual Time Dilation ? FTL, no .. Mutual Time Dilation, yes > Which belongs to fact and which belongs to fiction ? FTL fiction .. there are no FTL devices Mutual Time Dilation happens. >The players : >Ann - the stay at home twin - clock points at 2025 Betty's time is 2023. > >Betty - the traveling twin - clock points at 2023 Ann's time is 2021 So we're obviosuly talking about while Betty is still travelling away from Ann > Enter mutual time dilation and ftl : What you have shown is mutual time dilation .. its already there >Ann sends ftl message to Betty, There is no FTL > message arrives in 2003. Betty retransmits message to Ann, message arrives > in 2001. Causality destroyed. That's why no FTL >This is under the assumption that for Ann, Betty is still in 2003 and that >for Betty, Ann is still in 2001. Which is the case > There is another, much more simple explanation : they are still both in > the same now Except we KNOW from experiment that there is no such thing as the same 'now'. Time is NOT the same everywhere. this is experimentally proven So everything yhou say from here on is just fantasy in some imaginary world other than our own. [snip fanasty] >What is the greater science fiction, ftl or mutual time dilation, FTL. it is not observerd to happen .. that makes it fiction Whereas mutual time dilation does .. which makes it fact > the latter giving rise to time travel No , it doesn't > and causality breaches ? No .. FTL does that. You just showed that. > Ftl does not breach causality, Yes .. it does > MTD (mutual time dilation) does. No .. it doesn't You really are poor at physcis. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news(a)netfront.net ---
From: BURT on 27 Jul 2010 20:18 On Jul 27, 5:09 pm, "whoever" <whoe...(a)whereever.com> wrote: > >"Hayek" wrote in messagenews:4c4f0a2c$0$22935$e4fe514c(a)news.xs4all.nl.... > > >FTL or Mutual Time Dilation ? > > FTL, no .. Mutual Time Dilation, yes > > > Which belongs to fact and which belongs to fiction ? > > FTL fiction .. there are no FTL devices > Mutual Time Dilation happens. > --- Space travel will be based on the opposite of mutual time dilation. Acceleration of aether-wave energy through space slows time flow for matter. By a slower clock you are traveling further through space. There is more time at high speed for a slower clock's intervals by comparison. This makes the time factor of space travel easier. You would live loneger and travel further that way. Mitch Raemsch
From: artful on 27 Jul 2010 20:44
On Jul 28, 5:09 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 27, 11:32 am, Hayek <haye...(a)nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote: > > > FTL or Mutual Time Dilation ? > > > Which belongs to fact and which belongs to fiction ? > > > The players : > > Ann - the stay at home twin - clock points at 2025 > > Betty's time is 2023. > > > Betty - the traveling twin - clock points at 2023 > > Ann's time is 2021 > > This is NOT what mutual time dilation says. > > > > > > > Enter mutual time dilation and ftl : > > Ann sends ftl message to Betty, message arrives in 2003. > > Betty retransmits message to Ann, message arrives in > > 2001. Causality destroyed. > > > This is under the assumption that for Ann, Betty is > > still in 2003 and that for Betty, Ann is still in 2001. > > > There is another, much more simple explanation : they > > are still both in the same now, let us take the Earth's > > time as a reference, 2005, but Betty's molecules have > > just moved slower (imnsho because of higher inertia), > > just as she would have as being in some cryogenic system. > > > In this context : Ann ftl-calls Betty and realizes that > > her speech is gamma times slower, Betty notices that Ann > > speech is gamma times faster. Ftl works just fine, only > > the phone bills are too high. > > > What is the greater science fiction, ftl or mutual time > > dilation, the latter giving rise to time travel and > > causality breaches ? > > > Ftl does not breach causality, MTD (mutual time > > dilation) does. > > > MTD = Science Fiction. > > > Uwe Hayek. > > > -- > > We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate > > inversion : the stage where the government is free to do > > anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by > > permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of > > human history. -- Ayn Rand > > > I predict future happiness for Americans if they can > > prevent the government from wasting the labors of the > > people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- > > Thomas Jefferson. > > > Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of > > ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue > > is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill. Actually it is. If you consider Betty is still in uniform motion away from Ann, and look at the event in Betty's frame where Betty's clock shows 2023 .. Ann's clock will show an earlier time (say 2021) simultaneous with Betty (according to Betty). But there is also a time later than 2023 in Ann's frame (say 2025) where Betty's clock will show 2023 and be simultaneous with Ann (according to Ann). SO the description is quite compatible with SR and MTD. There is also no problem with causality. However, if you introduce FTL transmission of information (which doesn't happen in SR) then you get breaks in causality. That is (part of ) what FTL doesn't happen in our world (which is modelled so well by SR) |