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From: W. eWatson on 11 Jan 2010 21:27
Ben Finney wrote:
> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks(a)invalid.com> writes:
>
>> See my post about the datetime controversy about 3-4 posts up from
>> yours.
>
> This forum is distributed, and there's no “up” or “3-4 messages” that is
> common for all readers.
>
> Could you give the Message-ID for that message?
>
Sort of like outer space I guess. No real direction. How would I find
the message ID?

It's easier to place the comment here:

There seems to be some controversy about this and other matters of
datetime.
<http://blog.twinapex.fi/2008/06/30/relativity-of-time-shortcomings-in-python-datetime-and-workaround/>
From: Ben Finney on 11 Jan 2010 21:32
"W. eWatson" <wolftracks(a)invalid.com> writes:

> Ben Finney wrote:
> > Could you give the Message-ID for that message?
> >
> Sort of like outer space I guess. No real direction. How would I find
> the message ID?

It is a field in the header of every message. Show the full header, and
look for the field named 'Message-ID'.

Ideally the value of that field is unique for all messages ever, but
there's no technical enforcement of that so it wouldn't serve to
*guarantee* unique identification. It's good enough to use as an
identifier in referring people to read messages, though.

--
\ “Oh, I realize it's a penny here and a penny there, but look at |
`\ me: I've worked myself up from nothing to a state of extreme |
_o__) poverty.” —Groucho Marx |
Ben Finney
From: Alf P. Steinbach on 11 Jan 2010 21:47
* W. eWatson:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks(a)invalid.com> writes:
>>
>>> See my post about the datetime controversy about 3-4 posts up from
>>> yours.
>>
>> This forum is distributed, and there's no “up” or “3-4 messages” that is
>> common for all readers.
>>
>> Could you give the Message-ID for that message?
>>
> Sort of like outer space I guess. No real direction. How would I find
> the message ID?

In Thunderbird (the newsreader that you're using) there's a little '+' to the
left of the message subject line.

That shows the headers.

You can alternatively use [View -> Message Source], or keyboard [Ctrl U].

From that you find that the message id is

hifkh3$bru$1(a)news.eternal-september.org

Then, kicking and cajoling your web browser to turn in the direction of Google
Groups' Usenet archive,

groups.google.com

you click the "Advanced search" button, paste the message id, and find that
Google is unable to find your article, he he.

It's common, it's a very very unreliable archive.

However, as with most things, the "Great Wall of Google" prevents you from
reporting this. There's no known way to report any bug to Google. As with
Microsoft in the old days (reportedly Microsoft employees weren't even allowed
to use the words "bug" or "error" with customers, only, at worst, "problems"),
there are Google web forms and whatnot, but they all end up in cul-de-sacs, so
that, together with the total impossibility of reaching any human at Google, one
very very strongly suspects that it's Google *policy* to never admit to bugs, or
waste time on fixing them. And so, I suspect, Google Earth still places Norway
in the middle of Sweden, and I know for a fact that Google Groups still actively
removes the space at the end of a valid signature delimiter, and Google Talk
acts up in various ways, and so on: quite serious bugs, but no way to report
them (thousands upon thousands have tried, at one time a movement was founded
with its own web site, but the "Great Wall of Google" lets no-one through).

And considering this, and the fact that Google's archive is now the main Usenet
archive, message id's are not that useful, really.

So asking for a Usenet article's message id is just showing off -- that one is
not up-to-date on current technology (it gets more unreliable year by year).


> It's easier to place the comment here:
>
> There seems to be some controversy about this and other matters of
> datetime.
> <http://blog.twinapex.fi/2008/06/30/relativity-of-time-shortcomings-in-python-datetime-and-workaround/>

No, not at all. :-)

Instead, just ignore silly requests for message id's.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf
From: Steve Holden on 11 Jan 2010 22:03
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * W. eWatson:
>> Ben Finney wrote:
>>> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks(a)invalid.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> See my post about the datetime controversy about 3-4 posts up from
>>>> yours.
>>>
>>> This forum is distributed, and there's no “up” or “3-4 messages” that is
>>> common for all readers.
>>>
>>> Could you give the Message-ID for that message?
>>>
>> Sort of like outer space I guess. No real direction. How would I find
>> the message ID?
>
> In Thunderbird (the newsreader that you're using) there's a little '+'
> to the left of the message subject line.
>
> That shows the headers.
>
It shows a very limited subset of the headers ...

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS: http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

From: Ben Finney on 11 Jan 2010 22:26
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps(a)start.no> writes:

> And considering this, and the fact that Google's archive is now the
> main Usenet archive, message id's are not that useful, really.

You've demonstrated only that Google is an unreliable Usenet archive.

One doesn't even need to use Usenet, in this case, since
comp.lang.python is a forum distributed both as a Usenet forum and a
mailing-list forum.

--
\ “Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe |
`\ or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” —Arthur C. Clarke, |
_o__) 1999 |
Ben Finney
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