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From: Glenn Gundlach on 21 Jul 2010 03:37
On Jul 20, 11:16 pm, Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurt...(a)pixelmemory.us> wrote:
> In article <3e980$4c4618ff$18ec6dd7$1...(a)KNOLOGY.NET>,
>
>  "amdx" <a...(a)knology.net> wrote:
> >  Hey Guys,
> >  I'm curious about viewing a standard analog 4:3 aspect ratio cable signal
> > on an HD TV.
> >  If you visit a TV sales show room they always have an HD signal playing on
> > the TVs.
> > I have a standard cable tv signal to my house I have no plan to upgrade to
> > the upper tier.
> > However, I have one spot where I would like to put in a new tv.
> > So is anyone watching standard (old standard ?) tv on a newer HD tv?
> >  And, what is the downside.
>
> You get black bars on the side or you can stretch the edges.  Don't buy
> a plasma TV because they have both short-term and long-term burn-in that
> will be a problem with lots of 4:3 viewing.
>
> You might be able to get cheap 16:9 content, but maybe not HD, through a
> satellite mini-dish service.  If you're near an urban area, $300 for
> rooftop antenna hardware gives you 5+ years of HDTV.
> --
> I won't see Google Groups replies because I must filter them as spam

$300 ? Yer gittin hosed. It should run more like 15 years if properly
installed.

G²
From: Joerg on 23 Jul 2010 10:53
Glenn Gundlach wrote:
> On Jul 20, 2:49 pm, "amdx" <a...(a)knology.net> wrote:
> > Hey Guys,
> > I'm curious about viewing a standard analog 4:3 aspect ratio cable
> signal
> > on an HD TV.
> > If you visit a TV sales show room they always have an HD signal
> playing on
> > the TVs.
> > I have a standard cable tv signal to my house I have no plan to
> upgrade to
> > the upper tier.
> > However, I have one spot where I would like to put in a new tv.
> > So is anyone watching standard (old standard ?) tv on a newer HD
> tv?
> > And, what is the downside.
> > --
> > MikeK
>
> There is very possibly clear QAM HD on your existing cable which you
> will find when you scan for channels. These will be your 'local' OTA
> channels. Don't be surprised if you find 3 (yep 3) versions of your
> local channels when you scan. Plain old analog, STD DEF digital and HD
> digital. You're welcome to watch any one of them but the HD will
> likely look better.
>
> As for 'downsides', you paid for something you're not using but it's
> your choice. Plasma sets will eventually burn the center vs the edges
> - even the new 'don't burn' models. LCDs also burn but take much
> longer. If you use a VCR with the new set, you may have color hue
> shifts at the top of the picture as the newer TVs are less tolerant of
> the crappy Time Base Correction in a typical VCR. A VCR with a digital
> TBC will be fine. DVDs will be the best you've seen - as long as you
> use HDMI or component vs analog composite.
>

Actually with VCRs it is usually worse. The whole color portion of the
picture is often offset sideways and that offset moves about. Quite
annoying. Older TV sets didn't have that problem so their engineers must
have understood the basics of NTSC better.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
From: Jan Panteltje on 23 Jul 2010 12:25
On a sunny day (Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:53:35 -0700) it happened Joerg
<invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in <8atonnFvm0U4(a)mid.individual.net>:

>Glenn Gundlach wrote:
>> On Jul 20, 2:49 pm, "amdx" <a...(a)knology.net> wrote:
>> > Hey Guys,
>> > I'm curious about viewing a standard analog 4:3 aspect ratio cable
>> signal
>> > on an HD TV.
>> > If you visit a TV sales show room they always have an HD signal
>> playing on
>> > the TVs.
>> > I have a standard cable tv signal to my house I have no plan to
>> upgrade to
>> > the upper tier.
>> > However, I have one spot where I would like to put in a new tv.
>> > So is anyone watching standard (old standard ?) tv on a newer HD
>> tv?
>> > And, what is the downside.
>> > --
>> > MikeK
>>
>> There is very possibly clear QAM HD on your existing cable which you
>> will find when you scan for channels. These will be your 'local' OTA
>> channels. Don't be surprised if you find 3 (yep 3) versions of your
>> local channels when you scan. Plain old analog, STD DEF digital and HD
>> digital. You're welcome to watch any one of them but the HD will
>> likely look better.
>>
>> As for 'downsides', you paid for something you're not using but it's
>> your choice. Plasma sets will eventually burn the center vs the edges
>> - even the new 'don't burn' models. LCDs also burn but take much
>> longer. If you use a VCR with the new set, you may have color hue
>> shifts at the top of the picture as the newer TVs are less tolerant of
>> the crappy Time Base Correction in a typical VCR. A VCR with a digital
>> TBC will be fine. DVDs will be the best you've seen - as long as you
>> use HDMI or component vs analog composite.
>>
>
>Actually with VCRs it is usually worse. The whole color portion of the
>picture is often offset sideways and that offset moves about. Quite
>annoying. Older TV sets didn't have that problem so their engineers must
>have understood the basics of NTSC better.

Older TV sets had the same problem.
It is probably more visible on your bigger screen.
It has nothing to do with NTSC, but with the tape speed variations.
And the loop filter of the H timebase.
Very old sets hasd a selection switch for fast H response.
Same problem was in PAL.
VCR -> to garbage.
From: Glenn Gundlach on 23 Jul 2010 22:45
On Jul 23, 7:53 am, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Glenn Gundlach wrote:
> >  On Jul 20, 2:49 pm, "amdx" <a...(a)knology.net> wrote:
> >  >  Hey Guys,
> >  >  I'm curious about viewing a standard analog 4:3 aspect ratio cable
> > signal
> >  > on an HD TV.
> >  >  If you visit a TV sales show room they always have an HD signal
> > playing on
> >  > the TVs.
> >  > I have a standard cable tv signal to my house I have no plan to
> > upgrade to
> >  > the upper tier.
> >  > However, I have one spot where I would like to put in a new tv.
> >  > So is anyone watching standard (old standard ?) tv on a newer HD
> > tv?
> >  >  And, what is the downside.
> >  > --
> >  > MikeK
>
> > There is very possibly clear QAM HD on your existing cable which you
> > will find when you scan for channels. These will be your 'local' OTA
> > channels. Don't be surprised if you find 3 (yep 3) versions of your
> > local channels when you scan. Plain old analog, STD DEF digital and HD
> > digital. You're welcome to watch any one of them but the HD will
> > likely look better.
>
> > As for 'downsides', you paid for something you're not using but it's
> > your choice. Plasma sets will eventually burn the center vs the edges
> > - even the new 'don't burn' models. LCDs also burn but take much
> > longer. If you use a VCR with the new set, you may have color hue
> > shifts at the top of the picture as the newer TVs are less tolerant of
> > the crappy Time Base Correction in a typical VCR. A VCR with a digital
> > TBC will be fine.  DVDs will be the best you've seen - as long as you
> > use HDMI or component vs analog composite.
>
> Actually with VCRs it is usually worse. The whole color portion of
the
> picture is often offset sideways and that offset moves about. Quite
> annoying. Older TV sets didn't have that problem so their engineers
must
> have understood the basics of NTSC better.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> Use another domain or send PM.

I thought I said the newer TVs "are less tolerant of the crappy Time
Base Correction in a typical VCR." Ours was bad too until I bought (6
years ago) a VCR with a digital TBC - problem solved - but who uses a
VCR anymore? Analog TVs are capable of 'chasing' the time base errors
as the H system is a big PLL - the heart of a time base corrector.
Pixel based displays expect things to be where they belong and don't
deal well with time jitters. Now the recordings are all files on
computers - a monumental improvement. The pictures at home are nearly
the same as the ones at work. If the data rate was higher for home....

G²
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