How hard is to build a processor?
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From: Bill Cooke on 26 Feb 2010 16:18 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > Bill Cooke <bcooke(a)cookedata.com> writes: > >> Walter Banks wrote: >>> Don McKenzie wrote: >>> >>>> It seems that âGoogleâ engineer Bill Buzbee isnât interested in >>>> microprocessors that can be purchased in marked. There is more fun to >>>> build own. Several years ago he built first âMagic-1â processors >>>> , but now he makes its documentations widely available in his project >>>> website. >>>> >>>> http://www.embedds.com/how-hard-is-to-build-a-processor/ >>> It is a lost art. In the 70's I taught a course that students built >>> a small computer out of lab modules of TTL chip's. My first >>> personal computer was micro coded PDP-8 hand built. >>> >>> Ram was 1K (bits) parts on a wirewrap board. >>> >>> Walter.. >>> >>> >> In 1961 a colleague told me of a machine in a lab at Cornell named >> CADET, which reputedly stood for "can't add, doesn't even try". But >> it was a universal (Turing) machine. Most everyone has stood on the >> shoulders of software to extend behavior. In another sense, cpu >> development has also stood on the shoulders of software arts, for >> needs drive real engineering, not possibilities, and software >> disciplines provide the languages for expressing these needs. > > IBM 1620. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1620 Hah! My leg's been pulled. and to think I'd just finished a year on 1401, 705 code! I'd thought 'cadet' was a lab project, not a for-real machine. I've even read a 1620 manual, but never got to write for one. -- Bill > >> Each to his own. Some yearn to create a theory, some to create a >> bridge, some to create an impression. I still ponder the structure of >> a (programmable) computer of light and heavy marbles, gates, and a >> bunch of elevators. > > Another fun project!
From: TTman on 26 Feb 2010 16:36 "Ian Bell" <ruffrecords(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:hm8aia$ajc$2(a)localhost.localdomain... > petrus bitbyter wrote: >> "Don McKenzie" <5V(a)2.5A> schreef in bericht >> news:7uoa2jF5dnU1(a)mid.individual.net... >>> It seems that �Google� engineer Bill Buzbee isn�t interested in >>> microprocessors that can be purchased in marked. There is more fun to >>> build own. Several years ago he built first �Magic-1� processors >>> , but now he makes its documentations widely available in his project >>> website. >>> >>> http://www.embedds.com/how-hard-is-to-build-a-processor/ >>> >>> >>> Cheers Don... >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Don McKenzie >>> >>> Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap >>> E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email >>> Web Camera Page: http://www.dontronics.com/webcam >>> No More Damn Spam: http://www.dontronics.com/spam >>> >>> Product Sellout: 15% OFF 4DSystems OLED Displays & modules. >>> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/micro-oled.html >> >> >> Back in '74 Elektor published a design of a computer built with >> TTL-logic. They really made it work though I doubt any subscriber built >> it too. >> >> petrus bitbyter > > Back in '73 I worked on a 16 bit mini computer built entirely out of TTL, > complete with a row of toggle switches on the front panel so you could > enter machine code by hand. It had a paper tape reader and along with a > paper tape punch you could use the two pass assembler - that's a lot of > paper. > > Cheers > > ian @Ian, who did you work for in 73 ???
From: TTman on 26 Feb 2010 16:39 "Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message news:DLadnf-Fi6vCsRXWnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d(a)giganews.com... Don McKenzie wrote: > > It seems that �Google� engineer Bill Buzbee isn�t interested in > microprocessors that can be purchased in marked. It is trivial to build a processor. This type of project is a semester work for a student. It is hard to make commercially viable processor, though. VLV But you have to add to that all the software to make it do something.... starting with a boot loader...
From: D Yuniskis on 26 Feb 2010 17:02 TTman wrote: > "Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:DLadnf-Fi6vCsRXWnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d(a)giganews.com... > >> It is trivial to build a processor. This type of project is a semester >> work for a student. It is hard to make commercially viable processor, >> though. > > But you have to add to that all the software to make it do something.... > starting with a boot loader... .... and there's the rub! :> I designed a processor some years ago. A friend was responsible for writing the code for it. *Nothing* worked! :< This was completely unexpected as we were both very competent in our individual responsibilities. We soon realized that I had designed the instruction set expecting "word" addresses (memory was 16b wide and only accessible *as* 16-bit words -- hence it seemed *obvious* that addresses would be of "words") whereas he had assumed *byte* addresses. :< Simple fix. Took all of the drama out of the event! ;-) I've seen other silly issues like this confound the initial startup of custom processors: e.g., confusion over which way the stack grows, whether the SP points to the last *used* location on the stack or the next *available*, etc. They are almost always "fun" problems to solve as they usually are easy to find and have dramatic consequences once found!
From: Jon Kirwan on 26 Feb 2010 19:09
On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:18:14 -0700, Bill Cooke <bcooke(a)cookedata.com> wrote: >Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >> Bill Cooke <bcooke(a)cookedata.com> writes: >> >>> Walter Banks wrote: >>>> Don McKenzie wrote: >>>> >>>>> It seems that �Google� engineer Bill Buzbee isn�t interested in >>>>> microprocessors that can be purchased in marked. There is more fun to >>>>> build own. Several years ago he built first �Magic-1� processors >>>>> , but now he makes its documentations widely available in his project >>>>> website. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.embedds.com/how-hard-is-to-build-a-processor/ >>>> It is a lost art. In the 70's I taught a course that students built >>>> a small computer out of lab modules of TTL chip's. My first >>>> personal computer was micro coded PDP-8 hand built. >>>> >>>> Ram was 1K (bits) parts on a wirewrap board. >>>> >>>> Walter.. >>>> >>>> >>> In 1961 a colleague told me of a machine in a lab at Cornell named >>> CADET, which reputedly stood for "can't add, doesn't even try". But >>> it was a universal (Turing) machine. Most everyone has stood on the >>> shoulders of software to extend behavior. In another sense, cpu >>> development has also stood on the shoulders of software arts, for >>> needs drive real engineering, not possibilities, and software >>> disciplines provide the languages for expressing these needs. >> >> IBM 1620. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1620 > >Hah! My leg's been pulled. and to think I'd just finished a year on >1401, 705 code! I'd thought 'cadet' was a lab project, not a for-real >machine. I've even read a 1620 manual, but never got to write for one. > >-- Bill ><snip> I can remember hearing that phrase from time to time when I worked on the 1620. It was a fun machine. I used to swap out the colored bezels on the control panel just to tease. Jon |