Prev: Cordless Phone batteries are all junk?
Next: cell phone spying..
From: mm on 26 Dec 2009 04:12
I hope you all can explain this to me.

Let's assume we have an AC adapter with only a small number of parts,
a step-down transformer and 1 to 4 diodes.

Let's assume that the primary of the adpater uses 0.1 amps at 120
volts. (I don't think it matters for the sake of this question how
much the device itself uses. We can pretend that there are no losses
and it has an output of 1 amp at 12 volts, and powers a device that
uses the full amp. Or that the device uses less than that.)

So in this case when the device is on, it's consuming 12 watts from
the power company. The primary of the AC adapter is using 12 watts.

Roughly, with an adapter of typical, simple, only 5 parts, design, how
much in watts would the adapter use if the device were turned off,
that is, if the secondary circuit of the adapter were open? The
primary circuit would still be closed. The inductive impedance of the
primary winding would go up -- it took me years to figure that out --
but I have no idea how much.


2) Yesterday, someone gave me a broken AC adapter used to power a
Westell DSL modem. I broke it open and instead of the 5 or 6 parts
such things used to have, this one had about 25 parts, including a
small transformer and what looked like another winding on a metal
core. Plus 3 big caps (one or more filter caps), I need more light
and better glasses to count the diodes, one transistor, and something
looking like a little glass fuse but with a white sandy body.

Something this complicated must be smarter than earlier adapters.
Does that mean it uses less current when the device intended to be
powered is Off? Any idea how much a 25-part adapter like this uses
when the devices is Off, assuming when it's On it uses 12 watts?

Thanks.
From: Phil Allison on 26 Dec 2009 05:06

"mm"
>
> Roughly, with an adapter of typical, simple, only 5 parts, design, how
> much in watts would the adapter use if the device were turned off,
> that is, if the secondary circuit of the adapter were open? The
> primary circuit would still be closed. The inductive impedance of the
> primary winding would go up -- it took me years to figure that out --
> but I have no idea how much.


** The number is not fixed - like most things, it varies.

The range is from about 0.5 watt to 3 watts for a 12 watt adaptor.

Some fuckwits think this matters and have passed laws banning the sale of
adaptors that use more than 0.75 watts or so when off load.

DAMN WANKERS !!!

Like YOU !!!



.... Phil





From: Sylvia Else on 26 Dec 2009 06:07
Phil Allison wrote:
> "mm"
>> Roughly, with an adapter of typical, simple, only 5 parts, design, how
>> much in watts would the adapter use if the device were turned off,
>> that is, if the secondary circuit of the adapter were open? The
>> primary circuit would still be closed. The inductive impedance of the
>> primary winding would go up -- it took me years to figure that out --
>> but I have no idea how much.
>
>
> ** The number is not fixed - like most things, it varies.
>
> The range is from about 0.5 watt to 3 watts for a 12 watt adaptor.
>
> Some fuckwits think this matters and have passed laws banning the sale of
> adaptors that use more than 0.75 watts or so when off load.
>

There's a market inefficiency. An adapter that wastes 3 watts when left
plugged in would cost about $4.50 per year to run under Powersmart
residential rates in NSW. But purchasers are unlikely to factor that
into their decision to buy, which will probably be determined by sticker
price.

To address this market ineffeciency, a regulator has two options -
either ban such profligate power consumption, or require clear labelling
of the power consumption implications. Since it is highly probable that
a less power hungry adaptor can be manufactured for less additional cost
than the annual cost of the excess power consumption, it makes sense to
take the route that dictates a maximum unloaded power consumption.

Sylvia.
From: Phil Allison on 26 Dec 2009 06:29

"Stupider than Anyone a Else Alive"

>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>>
>> ** The number is not fixed - like most things, it varies.
>>
>> The range is from about 0.5 watt to 3 watts for a 12 watt adaptor.
>>
>> Some fuckwits think this matters and have passed laws banning the sale of
>> adaptors that use more than 0.75 watts or so when off load.
>>
>> DAMN WANKERS
>> Just like Sylvia.
>
>
> There's a market inefficiency.

** No there is not.


> An adapter that wastes 3 watts

** The energy is not wasted.

> To address this market ineffeciency,


** Which does not exist.


> either ban such profligate power consumption,


** Nothing of the sort is happening.

Profligate power consumption is not due to tiny adaptors and a few watts.

Large appliances like water heaters, air conditioners and domestic halogen
lighting are the main culprits.

Fuckwits like Sylvia can never see the wood for the trees.

Cos her ugly head is made entirely of rotten wood.




..... Phil



From: Sylvia Else on 26 Dec 2009 06:37
Phil Allison wrote:
> "Stupider than Anyone a Else Alive"
>
>> Phil Allison wrote:
>>> ** The number is not fixed - like most things, it varies.
>>>
>>> The range is from about 0.5 watt to 3 watts for a 12 watt adaptor.
>>>
>>> Some fuckwits think this matters and have passed laws banning the sale of
>>> adaptors that use more than 0.75 watts or so when off load.
>>>
>>> DAMN WANKERS
>>> Just like Sylvia.
>>
>> There's a market inefficiency.
>
> ** No there is not.
>
>
>> An adapter that wastes 3 watts
>
> ** The energy is not wasted.
>
>> To address this market ineffeciency,
>
>
> ** Which does not exist.
>
>
>> either ban such profligate power consumption,
>
>
> ** Nothing of the sort is happening.
>
> Profligate power consumption is not due to tiny adaptors and a few watts.
>
> Large appliances like water heaters, air conditioners and domestic halogen
> lighting are the main culprits.
>
> Fuckwits like Sylvia can never see the wood for the trees.
>
> Cos her ugly head is made entirely of rotten wood.
>
>
>
>
> .... Phil
>
>
>

You seem to be assuming that the intervention is about energy
consumption. Well, maybe it is. But the intervention can be justified on
purely economic grounds. The comsumers* are better off as a result of
the intervention, even if they don't realise it.

Sylvia

[*] Except for the smally minority who unplug/switch off their adapters.
 |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Prev: Cordless Phone batteries are all junk?
Next: cell phone spying..