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From: Charles on 8 Feb 2010 12:03
Hi Tom

I can see why what you say is correct, and how it is consistent with the way
in which one manages other code, but it just doesn't seem to work in a
coherent fashion at present. I have just replied to Tibor, but you might be
able to help with the dilemma I put to him?

Charles


"Tom Cooper" <tomcooper(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:#UJLCqNqKHA.5840(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Yes, you should be maintaining the script and not the objects in the
> database.
>
> The "best practices" way to do this is to maintain the scripts in an
> external source control system. This is not only true for tables,
> constraints, etc, you should also do this for stored procedures, functions
> etc.
>
> That way, you treat database source code the same way you treat any other
> source code - the source control system always has the current running
> production source as well as a complete change history.
>
> Tom
>
> "Charles" <blank(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:uUx56LNqKHA.556(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> When creating a sproc in SSMS, a simple code header is automatically
>> inserted that I can use to save change history, for example. When
>> creating a view this does not happen as far as I can see, although I can
>> manually enter one.
>>
>> When creating a table there is no header and it seems no possibility to
>> create one; if I create the table from script comments are not retained.
>>
>> Firstly, I am wondering why the inconsistency, and secondly how can I
>> save comments where developers enter change history when something in the
>> table schema is updated? I realise I can use extended properties, but
>> these appear horribly cumbersome, and not really fit for this purpose.
>> How does everyone else do it?
>>
>> [I'm going to try and second guess here, but is is that I should be
>> maintaining the script and not the database objects?]
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>
From: Charles on 8 Feb 2010 12:06
Hi Hyacinth, thanks for the reply.

I did look briefly at this function, but it seemed to be taking me down the
extended property route, and from the other replies it appears that is not
really the way to go. I didn't find it to be very intuitive to maintain
version history, and I couldn't see how it would help with the source
control angle.

Charles


"Hyacinth Pfeiffer" <hypi.pfeiffer(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:Ohj56qNqKHA.4008(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> Hi Charles,
>
> you may have a look at "fn_listextendedproperty". This mechanism can be
> used to store various comments in the database.
>
> Hyacinth
>
>
> Am 08.02.2010 16:25, schrieb Charles:
>> When creating a sproc in SSMS, a simple code header is automatically
>> inserted that I can use to save change history, for example. When
>> creating a view this does not happen as far as I can see, although I can
>> manually enter one.
>>
>> When creating a table there is no header and it seems no possibility to
>> create one; if I create the table from script comments are not retained.
>>
>> Firstly, I am wondering why the inconsistency, and secondly how can I
>> save comments where developers enter change history when something in
>> the table schema is updated? I realise I can use extended properties,
>> but these appear horribly cumbersome, and not really fit for this
>> purpose. How does everyone else do it?
>>
>> [I'm going to try and second guess here, but is is that I should be
>> maintaining the script and not the database objects?]
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>
From: Tibor Karaszi on 8 Feb 2010 12:32
Hi Charles,

I'm not the right person to comment on source control systems and such
tools. I do know that Red-gate has a popular tool for schema handling. I
also believe that "DataDude" (Google), which is now Visual Studio for
Database Professionals (or something like that) also has schema handling
functionality. Consider posting a new thread with some appropriate subject
for this...

--
Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
http://sqlblog.com/blogs/tibor_karaszi



"Charles" <blank(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Ocgv1AOqKHA.2076(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Hi Tibor, thanks for the quick reply.
>
> As I was penning the question I thought this might be the answer. I'm
> looking at source control in particular at the moment for the database so
> I can see that this is the right way to go.
>
> What I'm struggling with now is how to manage the scripts. I want to use
> SVN for source control, and since it doesn't integrate with SSMS I have
> created a database project in Visual Studio (2008). I have scripted the
> database into one file per object, and I can add these to my database
> project. But these are all CREATE scripts, so when I want to modify
> something, I have to manually create the ALTER script myself, is that
> correct?
>
> For example, suppose I want to change the definition of a table column
> from VARCHAR(50) to VARCHAR(255). I can't just amend the CREATE TABLE
> script as I would have no way of deploying this to an existing database,
> only to a new database. So how does that work?
>
> It just strikes me that managing and maintaining change in a database is
> not joined up yet. Am I missing something?
>
> Charles
>
>
> "Tibor Karaszi" <tibor_please.no.email_karaszi(a)hotmail.nomail.com> wrote
> in message news:OiAzNlNqKHA.3936(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> I prefer to have script files as the truth. This allow for comments in
>> these script files. The short technical answer to your question is that a
>> table is just a definition (no "code"), so there's no place for a comment
>> to go anywhere in the CREATE TABLE command.
>>
>> --
>> Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
>> http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
>> http://sqlblog.com/blogs/tibor_karaszi
>>
>>
>>
>> "Charles" <blank(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:uUx56LNqKHA.556(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> When creating a sproc in SSMS, a simple code header is automatically
>>> inserted that I can use to save change history, for example. When
>>> creating a view this does not happen as far as I can see, although I can
>>> manually enter one.
>>>
>>> When creating a table there is no header and it seems no possibility to
>>> create one; if I create the table from script comments are not retained.
>>>
>>> Firstly, I am wondering why the inconsistency, and secondly how can I
>>> save comments where developers enter change history when something in
>>> the table schema is updated? I realise I can use extended properties,
>>> but these appear horribly cumbersome, and not really fit for this
>>> purpose. How does everyone else do it?
>>>
>>> [I'm going to try and second guess here, but is is that I should be
>>> maintaining the script and not the database objects?]
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>>
From: Charles on 8 Feb 2010 14:43
Will do. Thanks again.

Charles


"Tibor Karaszi" <tibor_please.no.email_karaszi(a)hotmail.nomail.com> wrote in
message news:#n122ROqKHA.1544(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Hi Charles,
>
> I'm not the right person to comment on source control systems and such
> tools. I do know that Red-gate has a popular tool for schema handling. I
> also believe that "DataDude" (Google), which is now Visual Studio for
> Database Professionals (or something like that) also has schema handling
> functionality. Consider posting a new thread with some appropriate subject
> for this...
>
> --
> Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
> http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
> http://sqlblog.com/blogs/tibor_karaszi
>
>
>
> "Charles" <blank(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:Ocgv1AOqKHA.2076(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Hi Tibor, thanks for the quick reply.
>>
>> As I was penning the question I thought this might be the answer. I'm
>> looking at source control in particular at the moment for the database so
>> I can see that this is the right way to go.
>>
>> What I'm struggling with now is how to manage the scripts. I want to use
>> SVN for source control, and since it doesn't integrate with SSMS I have
>> created a database project in Visual Studio (2008). I have scripted the
>> database into one file per object, and I can add these to my database
>> project. But these are all CREATE scripts, so when I want to modify
>> something, I have to manually create the ALTER script myself, is that
>> correct?
>>
>> For example, suppose I want to change the definition of a table column
>> from VARCHAR(50) to VARCHAR(255). I can't just amend the CREATE TABLE
>> script as I would have no way of deploying this to an existing database,
>> only to a new database. So how does that work?
>>
>> It just strikes me that managing and maintaining change in a database is
>> not joined up yet. Am I missing something?
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> "Tibor Karaszi" <tibor_please.no.email_karaszi(a)hotmail.nomail.com> wrote
>> in message news:OiAzNlNqKHA.3936(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> I prefer to have script files as the truth. This allow for comments in
>>> these script files. The short technical answer to your question is that
>>> a table is just a definition (no "code"), so there's no place for a
>>> comment to go anywhere in the CREATE TABLE command.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
>>> http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
>>> http://sqlblog.com/blogs/tibor_karaszi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Charles" <blank(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uUx56LNqKHA.556(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> When creating a sproc in SSMS, a simple code header is automatically
>>>> inserted that I can use to save change history, for example. When
>>>> creating a view this does not happen as far as I can see, although I
>>>> can manually enter one.
>>>>
>>>> When creating a table there is no header and it seems no possibility to
>>>> create one; if I create the table from script comments are not
>>>> retained.
>>>>
>>>> Firstly, I am wondering why the inconsistency, and secondly how can I
>>>> save comments where developers enter change history when something in
>>>> the table schema is updated? I realise I can use extended properties,
>>>> but these appear horribly cumbersome, and not really fit for this
>>>> purpose. How does everyone else do it?
>>>>
>>>> [I'm going to try and second guess here, but is is that I should be
>>>> maintaining the script and not the database objects?]
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>>
From: Dan Guzman on 9 Feb 2010 08:22
We use Visual Studio Team System 2008 (VSTS 1010 coming soon) with TFS
source control for database development. This provides version history with
branching capabilities, along with schema compare and deployment script
generation tools.

--
Hope this helps.

Dan Guzman
SQL Server MVP
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dang/


"Charles" <blank(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:uUx56LNqKHA.556(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> When creating a sproc in SSMS, a simple code header is automatically
> inserted that I can use to save change history, for example. When creating
> a view this does not happen as far as I can see, although I can manually
> enter one.
>
> When creating a table there is no header and it seems no possibility to
> create one; if I create the table from script comments are not retained.
>
> Firstly, I am wondering why the inconsistency, and secondly how can I save
> comments where developers enter change history when something in the table
> schema is updated? I realise I can use extended properties, but these
> appear horribly cumbersome, and not really fit for this purpose. How does
> everyone else do it?
>
> [I'm going to try and second guess here, but is is that I should be
> maintaining the script and not the database objects?]
>
> TIA
>
> Charles
>
>
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