How to turn down work
in [Live Sound]
|
From: Arny Krueger on 9 Feb 2010 08:40 "George's Pro Sound Co." <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:0YqdnX1tTa-brO3WnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com > As I get further along in owning a sound company I have > come to understand that some work is just not going to > end up right in the long run Right, you aren't running a charity so others can profit excessively from your work. > here is a job I have done 3 or 4 times , The promoter > told me he was cutting his budget in half so I asked him > to look for another supplier here is the letter If he's cutting your fee in half for the same amount of work and equipment, then he's either panicking or trying to take advantage of the current economic situation. Anxiety is big these days, and people want to cut their risks. You're right to avoid losing money. If he guesses wrong and lots of people show up, he could even make more money. There's no way you can more more money because you've comitted yourself to a fixed price. And that is one way to respond - ask for a piece of the action instead of a flat rate if you trust him to share with you when the event is over. Another good response to a substandard offer is a counter offer that cuts back on services and equipment that would be provided. If you can't make money with a 1 man job with one 1 mic, one amp, and 1 speaker, then you should flatly turn down the job if you are free at that time. > Dean, > Thank You for talking with me at the super swap on > saturday. I understand how difficult it is to create a > event that is safe enjoyable and profitable, as my > business is in event production. Upon considering > how I have worked to set myself apart from most other > sound suppliers by the fact I carry a 3 million dollar > liability policy, use PAYCECKS to insure all taxes , > with holdings , workers comp and disability requirements > are met to the letter of the law, along with the reality > I need to make the vast majority of my income between > Memorial day and Labor day, I can not offer you what > your event needs in the budget you have expressed needing > to get to. My price will be 4500.00 paid upon arrival to > supply equipment and labor as needed to cover the event. I understand > that > this is well above what you need the sound to come in at > so I encourage you to inquire your local community for > someone that may be a disc jockey or own a start up sound > company who may still be "flying under the radar" so to > speak and does not have the responsibilities and expenses > that George's Pro Sound has taken on. I wish for you > a worry free and profitable time and would be happy to be of service to > you should the job I offer and the > professional protections( 3 million in liability > insurance,workers comp ,payroll taxes back up equipment > and my over 20 years of experience) be part of what you > would like to obtain from your sound provider. > Thank you for the past work and I will be happy to > work with you again at a time when your needs as a > promoter and my needs as a professional sound provider > can both be met. > Thank You Given your intrapersonal and language skills George, it would be good for you to say as little as possible. You say lots of things that don't need to be said, and nowhere do I see any counter-offers.
From: George's Pro Sound Co. on 9 Feb 2010 09:36 "Arny Krueger" <arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote in message news:pNWdnQ0XB91P-OzWnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > "George's Pro Sound Co." <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:0YqdnX1tTa-brO3WnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com > >> As I get further along in owning a sound company I have >> come to understand that some work is just not going to >> end up right in the long run > > Right, you aren't running a charity so others can profit excessively from > your work. > >> here is a job I have done 3 or 4 times , The promoter >> told me he was cutting his budget in half so I asked him >> to look for another supplier here is the letter > > If he's cutting your fee in half for the same amount of work and > equipment, then he's either panicking or trying to take advantage of the > current economic situation. Anxiety is big these days, and people want to > cut their risks. You're right to avoid losing money. If he guesses wrong > and lots of people show up, he could even make more money. There's no way > you can more more money because you've comitted yourself to a fixed price. > > And that is one way to respond - ask for a piece of the action instead of > a flat rate if you trust him to share with you when the event is over. > > Another good response to a substandard offer is a counter offer that cuts > back on services and equipment that would be provided. If you can't make > money with a 1 man job with one 1 mic, one amp, and 1 speaker, then you > should flatly turn down the job if you are free at that time. > >> Dean, > >> Thank You for talking with me at the super swap on >> saturday. I understand how difficult it is to create a >> event that is safe enjoyable and profitable, as my >> business is in event production. Upon considering >> how I have worked to set myself apart from most other >> sound suppliers by the fact I carry a 3 million dollar >> liability policy, use PAYCECKS to insure all taxes , >> with holdings , workers comp and disability requirements >> are met to the letter of the law, along with the reality >> I need to make the vast majority of my income between >> Memorial day and Labor day, I can not offer you what >> your event needs in the budget you have expressed needing >> to get to. My price will be 4500.00 paid upon arrival to >> supply equipment and labor as needed to cover the event. I understand >> that >> this is well above what you need the sound to come in at >> so I encourage you to inquire your local community for >> someone that may be a disc jockey or own a start up sound >> company who may still be "flying under the radar" so to >> speak and does not have the responsibilities and expenses >> that George's Pro Sound has taken on. I wish for you >> a worry free and profitable time and would be happy to be of service to >> you should the job I offer and the >> professional protections( 3 million in liability >> insurance,workers comp ,payroll taxes back up equipment >> and my over 20 years of experience) be part of what you >> would like to obtain from your sound provider. >> Thank you for the past work and I will be happy to >> work with you again at a time when your needs as a >> promoter and my needs as a professional sound provider >> can both be met. >> Thank You > > Given your intrapersonal and language skills George, it would be good for > you to say as little as possible. You say lots of things that don't need > to be said, and nowhere do I see any counter-offers. those were done in person he asked me to come up with a quote that matched the price he wanted to spend I spent a day thinking , dry hire, reduced gear, being named as a major sponsor, but decided that 1. he would damage the gear in a dry hire situation, not be respectful of its limits, or weather considerations, this is a outdoor public address situation 2. less gear, that he could manage as dry hire, would not meet audience needs or match the quality of work I am known for 3. this is a prime time mid season weekend, those days have more value than mid feburay ones, I work "nearly" every weekend all summer for a minimum of 5000$ for basic jobs like this to well into 5 figures when stage , lights, and massive gear/personell are required 4. as I am not willing to work for bottom feeder wages and still provide the protections to him of my insurance, and covering the legal requirments for tax filings and workers comp I choose to let him find his system with someone who is not as responsible to the legal aspects of owning a business ie a under the table, uninsured provider and who may not carry the experiance I do as far as deployment of a sound system in a public area, or someone who may or may not have the 300foot piece of 6/4 sow cord that is required to feed the ac power from the source to the system location my price is a combination of equipment, experiance, professional ability and legal resoponsibility if I was not on top of the game in every area Iwould charge considerable less, in fact I was that guy once, i have worked long and hard to not be that guy and when someone wants to hire that guy, i do not try to be georges pro sound for joes dj service prices the event can and has supported my price, I have done it 3 or 4 times he shorted me 100$ last year and Iam not putting myself or my ability to run my company profitable at risk by allowing the client to dictate my value I asked him to find another supplier this year that would work for what he wants to spend I strongly susspect he will back down and rehire me at my price but not being hired it is a judgment/risk that I , as the owner , make with each job I take on George > >
From: liquidator on 9 Feb 2010 11:00 "Ron" <ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message news:5vmdndpheIJitezWnZ2dnUVZ8gadnZ2d(a)bt.com... > On 08/02/2010 22:31, liquidator wrote: >> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >> news:SPWdnYSCMLCL2-3WnZ2dnUVZ7tli4p2d(a)bt.com... >>> On 08/02/2010 16:09, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: >>>> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >>>> news:itqdnb2Mhuflqe3WnZ2dnUVZ7rOdnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>>>> On 08/02/2010 15:42, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: >>>>>> As I get further along in owning a sound company I have come to >>>>>> understand >>>>>> that some work is just not going to end up right in the long run >>>>>> here is a job I have done 3 or 4 times , The promoter told me he was >>>>>> cutting >>>>>> his budget in half so I asked him to look for another supplier >>>>>> here is the letter >>>>>> >>>>>> so anyone got any leads for work july 9,10,and 11 this year :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Dean, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank You for talking with me at the super swap on saturday. I >>>>>> understand >>>>>> how difficult it is to create a event that is safe enjoyable and >>>>>> profitable, >>>>>> as my business is in event production. >>>>>> Upon considering how I have worked to set myself apart from >>>>>> most >>>>>> other >>>>>> sound suppliers by the fact I carry a 3 million dollar liability >>>>>> policy, >>>>>> use PAYCECKS to insure all taxes , with holdings , workers comp and >>>>>> disability requirements are met to the letter of the law, along with >>>>>> the >>>>>> reality I need to make the vast majority of my income between >>>>>> Memorial >>>>>> day >>>>>> and Labor day, I can not offer you what your event needs in the >>>>>> budget >>>>>> you >>>>>> have expressed needing to get to. >>>>>> My price will be 4500.00 paid upon arrival to supply >>>>>> equipment >>>>>> and >>>>>> labor as needed to cover the event. I understand that this is well >>>>>> above >>>>>> what you need the sound to come in at so I encourage you to inquire >>>>>> your >>>>>> local community for someone that may be a disc jockey or own a start >>>>>> up >>>>>> sound company who may still be "flying under the radar" so to speak >>>>>> and >>>>>> does >>>>>> not have the responsibilities and expenses that George's Pro Sound >>>>>> has >>>>>> taken >>>>>> on. >>>>>> I wish for you a worry free and profitable time and would be >>>>>> happy >>>>>> to >>>>>> be of service to you should the job I offer and the professional >>>>>> protections( 3 million in liability insurance,workers comp ,payroll >>>>>> taxes >>>>>> back up equipment and my over 20 years of experience) be part of what >>>>>> you >>>>>> would like to obtain from your sound provider. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for the past work and I will be happy to work with >>>>>> you >>>>>> again >>>>>> at a time when your needs as a promoter and my needs as a >>>>>> professional >>>>>> sound >>>>>> provider can both be met. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank You >>>>>> George Gleason >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good man. >>>>> If you do the job on the cheap this year, next year he will cut his >>>>> budget >>>>> again. Let him hire some cheap company, hopefully it will all go well >>>>> for >>>>> him, or it will be a disaster and maybe he will learn just why pro >>>>> companies charge what they do. >>>>> >>>>> Ron(UK) >>>> >>>> Ron that is what I am hoping to get across to the lurkers and newbies >>>> there is a supplier for every budget, but it doesn't have to be me. >>>> george >>>> >>>> >>> I cover the lower end of the market, but I don't step outside my >>> comfort >>> zone, and I don't tread on the toes of the bigger boys, who throw me a >>> fish every now and then. >>> >>> That's not to say I don't do my very best on each and every job I take. >>> >> >> Hey, guys like you are necessary to the ecosystem..how else do George >> and I >> get rid of used gear? ;-) >> >> >> In all seriousness, I always tried to cultivate the best of the local >> "bottom feeders", > > Well I don't consider myself a bottom feeder, I work with the equipment I > have available and can afford to pick and choose what jobs I take. > At my age I ain't gonna invest in a load of new kit. The vast majority of > my work is a residency in a local venue where I`m very happy, private jobs > are a bonus. > > Ron Ron if offense was given, I apologize. As Humpty Dumpty said, words mean different things to different people. I use that word generically to describe people who don't have a "brick and mortar" presence, ie no storefront, garage operations, etc. Has nothing to do with skill level. A lot of freelancers I hired, in fact most, had their own operations. Several benefitted greatly when I shut down, from equipment bargains to recommendations. Heck, by my definition I am a bottom feeder operation now, except that I only work for friends and maybe a charity now and then. I hardly work at all.
From: Ron on 9 Feb 2010 11:44
On 09/02/2010 16:00, liquidator wrote: > "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message > news:5vmdndpheIJitezWnZ2dnUVZ8gadnZ2d(a)bt.com... >> On 08/02/2010 22:31, liquidator wrote: >>> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >>> news:SPWdnYSCMLCL2-3WnZ2dnUVZ7tli4p2d(a)bt.com... >>>> On 08/02/2010 16:09, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: >>>>> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:itqdnb2Mhuflqe3WnZ2dnUVZ7rOdnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>>>>> On 08/02/2010 15:42, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: >>>>>>> As I get further along in owning a sound company I have come to >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> that some work is just not going to end up right in the long run >>>>>>> here is a job I have done 3 or 4 times , The promoter told me he was >>>>>>> cutting >>>>>>> his budget in half so I asked him to look for another supplier >>>>>>> here is the letter >>>>>>> >>>>>>> so anyone got any leads for work july 9,10,and 11 this year :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dean, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank You for talking with me at the super swap on saturday. I >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> how difficult it is to create a event that is safe enjoyable and >>>>>>> profitable, >>>>>>> as my business is in event production. >>>>>>> Upon considering how I have worked to set myself apart from >>>>>>> most >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> sound suppliers by the fact I carry a 3 million dollar liability >>>>>>> policy, >>>>>>> use PAYCECKS to insure all taxes , with holdings , workers comp and >>>>>>> disability requirements are met to the letter of the law, along with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> reality I need to make the vast majority of my income between >>>>>>> Memorial >>>>>>> day >>>>>>> and Labor day, I can not offer you what your event needs in the >>>>>>> budget >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> have expressed needing to get to. >>>>>>> My price will be 4500.00 paid upon arrival to supply >>>>>>> equipment >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> labor as needed to cover the event. I understand that this is well >>>>>>> above >>>>>>> what you need the sound to come in at so I encourage you to inquire >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> local community for someone that may be a disc jockey or own a start >>>>>>> up >>>>>>> sound company who may still be "flying under the radar" so to speak >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> does >>>>>>> not have the responsibilities and expenses that George's Pro Sound >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> taken >>>>>>> on. >>>>>>> I wish for you a worry free and profitable time and would be >>>>>>> happy >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be of service to you should the job I offer and the professional >>>>>>> protections( 3 million in liability insurance,workers comp ,payroll >>>>>>> taxes >>>>>>> back up equipment and my over 20 years of experience) be part of what >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> would like to obtain from your sound provider. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for the past work and I will be happy to work with >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> again >>>>>>> at a time when your needs as a promoter and my needs as a >>>>>>> professional >>>>>>> sound >>>>>>> provider can both be met. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank You >>>>>>> George Gleason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Good man. >>>>>> If you do the job on the cheap this year, next year he will cut his >>>>>> budget >>>>>> again. Let him hire some cheap company, hopefully it will all go well >>>>>> for >>>>>> him, or it will be a disaster and maybe he will learn just why pro >>>>>> companies charge what they do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ron(UK) >>>>> >>>>> Ron that is what I am hoping to get across to the lurkers and newbies >>>>> there is a supplier for every budget, but it doesn't have to be me. >>>>> george >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I cover the lower end of the market, but I don't step outside my >>>> comfort >>>> zone, and I don't tread on the toes of the bigger boys, who throw me a >>>> fish every now and then. >>>> >>>> That's not to say I don't do my very best on each and every job I take. >>>> >>> >>> Hey, guys like you are necessary to the ecosystem..how else do George >>> and I >>> get rid of used gear? ;-) >>> >>> >>> In all seriousness, I always tried to cultivate the best of the local >>> "bottom feeders", >> >> Well I don't consider myself a bottom feeder, I work with the equipment I >> have available and can afford to pick and choose what jobs I take. >> At my age I ain't gonna invest in a load of new kit. The vast majority of >> my work is a residency in a local venue where I`m very happy, private jobs >> are a bonus. >> >> Ron > > Ron if offense was given, I apologize. As Humpty Dumpty said, words mean > different things to different people. > > I use that word generically to describe people who don't have a "brick and > mortar" presence, ie no storefront, garage operations, etc. > > Has nothing to do with skill level. A lot of freelancers I hired, in fact > most, had their own operations. Several benefitted greatly when I shut down, > from equipment bargains to recommendations. > > Heck, by my definition I am a bottom feeder operation now, except that I > only work for friends and maybe a charity now and then. I hardly work at > all. Nah you're ok mate, I never take offense, life is too short. Ron |