From: Bill Rowe on 11 May 2010 06:28 On 5/10/10 at 6:37 AM, alexei.boulbitch(a)iee.lu (Alexei Boulbitch) wrote: >However, you can imagine my disappointment when I have found out >that several months after their creation some of these files I >cannot be open any more, while some others I can open, but this only >leads to a computer hang up. It happened with about 5 files out of >several tens, but still each of them required a lot of my time. FWIW, I've been using Mathematica since about version 1.2 and have many older notebooks created with older versions of Mathematica. I've yet to find one of those older files I cannot open or that causes Mathematica to hang or crash on opening. So, my experience indicates the problem you are seeing is due to a corrupted file rather than instability in Mathematica. >There is a second problem about Mathematica, which I classify as >less serious, but still very unpleasant. Rather often it informs >that the system made a heavy error and will close without saving. I believe this problem is inherent in any software such as Mathematica that can be seen as a general purpose programming environment. A characteristic of such software is that it is relatively easy to create code that consumes memory or other computer resources without bound. While it would be very nice if Mathematica could trap such problems and give the user sufficient warning to quit in a graceful manner, I suspect this can never be without creating significant performance issues. That is the nature of allowing arbitrary code to be created and run.
From: David Park on 11 May 2010 06:28 Alexei, My experience with Windows Vista is that I can't remember the last time I had a problem with losing a notebook. Perhaps not since Version 6 came out. I do have occasional problems with FrontEnd crashes, usually with dynamic I think. Annoying if I've forgotten to save recently. This doesn't happen often, and usually when I'm trying something new and have made some programming mistake to boot. So, for me, this does not rise to the same level of problem as for you. My impression from reading MathGroup and from private communication is that Mathematica is most stable on Windows, almost the same on Mac, and it trails off after that. With some systems you may have to become an expert System Engineer and Administrator. I suppose this might all be a matter of hot dispute. If your time is valuable (and it is!) spend the money to have a system that Mathematica works well with and don't skimp on operating systems. David Park djmpark(a)comcast.net http://home.comcast.net/~djmpark/ From: Alexei Boulbitch [mailto:alexei.boulbitch(a)iee.lu] Dear David, I would like to comment on your following statement: "At the present time, the single most serious problem with writing reports and books in Mathematica is that people who do not have Mathematica can't easily read them." I believe that I faced a more serious problem that prevents a broad using of Mathematica for creation and keeping documentation. Namely, already several times (to be more precise, about 5 to 6) the notebooks I have created appeared corrupted and impossible to repair. This year I prepared a course of uni lectures totally using Mathematica including notebooks with the lecture drafts and notebooks with demonstrations. It was fun and pleasure to use such a tool for this purpose, the feeling that I believe I share with you. However, you can imagine my disappointment when I have found out that several months after their creation some of these files I cannot be open any more, while some others I can open, but this only leads to a computer hang up. It happened with about 5 files out of several tens, but still each of them required a lot of my time. Especially strong is this disappointment, since I am going to give this course several times in future. OK, I have several machines and keep these notebooks on every of them, so things are not that dramatic in my personal case. I have really completely lost only few of those files (though even this is no fun at all). However, I think that this lack of stability is the most serious problem of the program preventing its future propagation and should be seriously addressed. Indeed, what will a person do, if he loses an important document due to such instability of Mathematica? Assume that this person is not a Mathematica fun (as both of us are), but only wants to use it as a comfortable and powerful tool. And what, if it happens just an hour before he is going to present the document to his boss, or to shareholders of the enterprise he works in, or to his bank? What will I do, if the day of the lecture (that I believe is ready) I find that I cannot open the corresponding file? I think the answer is unique: such a person will never use Mathematica any more (at least for creation of documentation or of presentations). There is a second problem about Mathematica, which I classify as less serious, but still very unpleasant. Rather often it informs that the system made a heavy error and will close without saving. We know that other programs like for instance, Word also exhibit sometimes this nice trick. However, my personal feeling is that Mathematica makes it considerably more often. Of coarse one can overcome this problem by a personal discipline by often saving notebook one works on. Therefore, I classify this problem as a secondary one though still important. I place these notes in a strong hope that these problems may be fixed by Wolfram in future Mathematica versions. Best regards, Alexei
From: michael partensky on 11 May 2010 06:28 I agree with Alexei. This is the most disappointing part in using M. for teaching and publishing. Is there a bulletproof way for protecting the nb files from corruption? Thanks Michael On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:37 AM, Alexei Boulbitch <alexei.boulbitch(a)iee.lu>wrote: > Dear David, > I would like to comment on your following statement: > > "At the present time, the single most serious problem with writing reports > and books in Mathematica is that people who do not have Mathematica can't > easily read them." > > I believe that I faced a more serious problem that prevents a broad using > of Mathematica for creation > and keeping documentation. Namely, already several times (to be more > precise, about 5 to 6) > the notebooks I have created appeared corrupted and impossible to repair. > > This year I prepared a course of uni lectures totally using Mathematica > including notebooks > with the lecture drafts and notebooks with demonstrations. It was fun and > pleasure to use such a tool > for this purpose, the feeling that I believe I share with you. However, you > can imagine my disappointment > when I have found out that several months after their creation some of > these files I cannot be open any more, > while some others I can open, but this only leads to a computer hang up. It > happened with about 5 files > out of several tens, but still each of them required a lot of my time. > Especially strong is this disappointment, > since I am going to give this course several times in future. > > OK, I have several machines and keep these notebooks on every of them, so > things are not that dramatic > in my personal case. I have really completely lost only few of those files > (though even this is no fun at all). > > However, I think that this lack of stability is the most serious problem of > the program preventing its future > propagation and should be seriously addressed. > > Indeed, what will a person do, if he loses an important document due to > such instability of Mathematica? > Assume that this person is not a Mathematica fun (as both of us are), but > only wants to use it as a comfortable > and powerful tool. And what, if it happens just an hour before he is going > to present the document to his boss, > or to shareholders of the enterprise he works in, or to his bank? > What will I do, if the day of the lecture (that I believe is ready) I find > that I cannot open the corresponding file? > I think the answer is unique: such a person will never use Mathematica any > more (at least for creation > of documentation or of presentations). > > There is a second problem about Mathematica, which I classify as less > serious, but still very unpleasant. > Rather often it informs that the system made a heavy error and will close > without saving. We know that other > programs like for instance, Word also exhibit sometimes this nice trick. > However, my personal feeling is that > Mathematica makes it considerably more often. Of coarse one can overcome > this problem by a personal discipline > by often saving notebook one works on. Therefore, I classify this problem > as a secondary one though still important. > > I place these notes in a strong hope that these problems may be fixed by > Wolfram in future Mathematica versions. > > Best regards, Alexei > > > > David Park wrote: > > Per, > > This can be approached at different levels. > > First, I'm not familiar with the capabilities and pricing of the various > versions of Mathematica but, if you can manage it and plan to do a lot of > technical work, get up to date with the latest version and keep up to date. > There is a world of difference between Version 7 and Version 5. The > dynamics > and improved graphics extend the ability to communicate by an order of > magnitude - or more. > > At the present time, the single most serious problem with writing reports > and books in Mathematica is that people who do not have Mathematica can't > easily read them. There is PlayerPro but that cost about $200 and few > people > will pay that just to read your paper or report. The free Player is a > partial solution but it is very restricted. You have to send it through > some > process at WRI, you can't use an independent package with it, and you can't > write custom dynamics but are restricted to the single Manipulate > statement. > I'm hoping that WRI will come up with a better solution to this, something > like the free Acrobat reader. We'll have to wait and see. You can "print" a > notebook as a PDF but that loses all the dynamics. > > Other than that, Mathematica offers capabilities as a technical development > and communication medium that are far beyond present practice with static > media. I would even consider it as a new field, ripe for development. We > have a lot to learn on how to use the new capabilities Mathematica gives > us. > > > You can easily add titles, subtitles, sections, subsections and text cells > to your notebooks. Each of these is a cell style. These are defined in the > various style sheets that Mathematica uses for the notebooks - for example, > the Default style sheet. I forget on which Menu item it occurs in Version > 5, > but there is a Show Toolbar option that will add a toolbar at the top of > your notebook. It has a drop-down menu for starting various cell types. You > can also use Menu, Format, Style to see the various cell styles, and this > listing also gives the shortcut keys for those styles that have them. > > Many users use Mathematica simply as a "programmable super graphical > calculator", without any sectional structure, but my opinion is that it is > much better to write notebooks as literate documents with structure and > plenty of textual explanation. > > At a higher level you can use Workbench in conjunction with Mathematica to > write Applications that might contain a book, ancillary packages, and > documentation that ties it all together. Once you get it set up, you can do > most of your mathematical development and writing in the regular > Mathematica > environment and only go to Workbench when you want to put material into a > "finished" form. This is a very good way to organize and preserve your work > in an active usable form, and to present it to other Mathematica users. > > Roger Williams has done two YouTube videos on Mathematica as the latest > medium for technical communication. He traces over three millennia of > technical communication and illustrates all the advantages of the active, > dynamic medium that Mathematica is. (He had posted a version of this on > MathGroup earlier, but this is a new and much improved version.) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v==-b0B5hp0hAQ > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v==Pm6yrevYcjQ > > > David Park > djmpark at comcast.net > http://home.comcast.net/~djmpark/ <http://home.comcast.net/%7Edjmpark/> > > > > > From: "Per R=F8nne" [mailto:per at RQNNE.invalid] > > > I am the not quote happy owner of Mathematica Teacher's Edition [it > doesn't work on Snow Leopard] and I do now see a future need to write > reports / books using Mathematica - though of course I would then have > to purchase a new version like Mathematica Home Edition at ==A3195. > > I do know that all of the Mathematica documentation is written in > Mathematica itself. But nowhere in this documentation do I see how to > enter ordinary text or chapter titles in a Mathematica notebook. > > I have an MSc degree and teach in the Danish 3-year Sixth Form College > for the 16-19-year-olds. After the summer vacation next year I am to > take an extra BSc degree in Physics and Astronomy and this is where I > will need the ability to write reports in Mathematica, including text, > formulas and graphics. > > So I am even considering to wait with the purchase of a new Mathematica > - after all the I've got version 5 from 2003, the present version is 7 > and version 8 might have come then. > > And - I don't even see anything particularly about the issue in Stephen > Wolfram's "The Mathematica Book 5th Edition". With 1,500 pages. Only a > few hints. > -- > Per Erik R==F8nne > http://www.RQNNE.dk > Errare humanum est, sed in errore perseverare turpe > > >
From: Larry Adelston on 11 May 2010 06:29 Hi Per, Regarding writing documents in Mathematica, you can simply change the style of a Cell by selecting a style from the Format > Style submenu. Yours, Larry On May 8, 2010, at 6:07 AM, Per R=F8nne wrote: > I am the not quote happy owner of Mathematica Teacher's Edition [it > doesn't work on Snow Leopard] and I do now see a future need to write > reports / books using Mathematica - though of course I would then have > to purchase a new version like Mathematica Home Edition at ==A3195. > > I do know that all of the Mathematica documentation is written in > Mathematica itself. But nowhere in this documentation do I see how to > enter ordinary text or chapter titles in a Mathematica notebook. > > I have an MSc degree and teach in the Danish 3-year Sixth Form College > for the 16-19-year-olds. After the summer vacation next year I am to > take an extra BSc degree in Physics and Astronomy and this is where I > will need the ability to write reports in Mathematica, including text, > formulas and graphics. > > So I am even considering to wait with the purchase of a new > Mathematica > - after all the I've got version 5 from 2003, the present version is 7 > and version 8 might have come then. > > And - I don't even see anything particularly about the issue in > Stephen > Wolfram's "The Mathematica Book 5th Edition". With 1,500 pages. Only a > few hints. > -- > Per Erik R==F8nne > http://www.RQNNE.dk > Errare humanum est, sed in errore perseverare turpe
From: David Bailey on 11 May 2010 06:29
Alexei Boulbitch wrote: > > I believe that I faced a more serious problem that prevents a broad using of Mathematica for creation > and keeping documentation. Namely, already several times (to be more precise, about 5 to 6) > the notebooks I have created appeared corrupted and impossible to repair. > I would say that I have not seen this problem for several versions - and even then, it may have been my fault, and I wonder if your problem lies elsewhere. You don't say which operating system you use, but one way to get corrupt files is if the write to disk never completes - say because a PC (without battery backup) is switched off rather than closed down, or if a removable storage medium is unplugged before the write process is complete - or, obviously, if you have a damaged disk. Sometimes the front end seems to get hung while performing dynamic operations, and I can imagine that saving your work in such a situation might cause problems. Do you have a specific scenario that provokes this problem - if you do, you might want to share the details here, and also inform Wolfram support. David Bailey http://www.dbaileyconsultancy.co.uk |