I am starting to prefer comboboxes than textboxes
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From: Daryl Muellenberg on 25 Feb 2010 11:40 "Dave O." <nobody(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message news:%23EySWZitKHA.4752(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > "MM" <kylix_is(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > news:terao51m3dioieqkkf8v00atom3bt06863(a)4ax.com... > >> So, are you saying the vast majority of users do not know what to do >> when confronted with a text field? > > A style 2 combo box does not present a "Text field" it is not something > most people would consider typing directly into. > Do this with a style 0 then they probably would type into it and certainly > into a style 1 where the drop down bit is hidden. > > The normal way that an experienced user would use a type 2 combo with the > keyboard is to enter the first letter of what they want then keep hitting > that key to cycle through all entries starting with that letter. Anything > that forces the combo box to work differently from the norm will annoy > experienced users and confuse the less experienced ones and as such is a > dumb idea. I disagree. Yes, originally combo boxes worked that way, but it has been improved on with the auto-complete feature (which is way better IMO). Just because it is the default behavior doesn't make it better. I would say most application now days use the auto-complete feature and if I see a combo box, the first thing I try is the auto-complete feature and get annoyed if it doesn't use it. As far as the less experienced users, why would you think it would confuse them? To me, it more confusing for a novice user to have to hit the same letter to cycle through the entries than to just key in what they are looking for. BTW, I have also been around since the punch cards and paper tape days :) Daryl
From: Dave O. on 25 Feb 2010 11:54 "Daryl Muellenberg" <dmuellenberg(a)comcast.net> wrote in message news:678700BF-6ECA-44F4-9F4D-83848CDBED13(a)microsoft.com... > > "Dave O." <nobody(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:%23EySWZitKHA.4752(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> >> "MM" <kylix_is(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:terao51m3dioieqkkf8v00atom3bt06863(a)4ax.com... >> >>> So, are you saying the vast majority of users do not know what to do >>> when confronted with a text field? >> >> A style 2 combo box does not present a "Text field" it is not something >> most people would consider typing directly into. >> Do this with a style 0 then they probably would type into it and >> certainly into a style 1 where the drop down bit is hidden. >> >> The normal way that an experienced user would use a type 2 combo with the >> keyboard is to enter the first letter of what they want then keep hitting >> that key to cycle through all entries starting with that letter. Anything >> that forces the combo box to work differently from the norm will annoy >> experienced users and confuse the less experienced ones and as such is a >> dumb idea. > > I disagree. Yes, originally combo boxes worked that way, but it has been > improved on with the auto-complete feature (which is way better IMO). Just > because it is the default behavior doesn't make it better. I would say > most application now days use the auto-complete feature and if I see a > combo box, the first thing I try is the auto-complete feature and get > annoyed if it doesn't use it. As far as the less experienced users, why > would you think it would confuse them? To me, it more confusing for a > novice user to have to hit the same letter to cycle through the entries > than to just key in what they are looking for. BTW, I have also been > around since the punch cards and paper tape days :) > > Daryl Yes for a style 0 or style 1 but a style 2 does not buffer characters beyond the first one without the author having to modify its behaviour. Dave O.
From: Dee Earley on 25 Feb 2010 11:56 On 25/02/2010 14:10, MM wrote: > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:27:46 -0300, Eduardo<mm(a)mm.com> wrote: >> Sometimes some friends or relatives or clients ask me for some help >> about the computer or a program by phone, and I say "go to the Start >> button" and some ask "where is that????" (it happened a couple of times >> at least) > > Everyone had to go to the Start button once. That's why Windows used to have an animation on the task bar saying "start here" with an arrow and then the Win2K welcome screen that said pretty much the same. -- Dee Earley (dee.earley(a)icode.co.uk) i-Catcher Development Team iCode Systems
From: DanS on 25 Feb 2010 12:01 MM <kylix_is(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:u85co5l26n37o5q8qgkp2b9eji6gmtbals(a)4ax.com: > On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:41:14 -0600, DanS > <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t(a)r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote: > >>MM <kylix_is(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in >>news:ihrao513afl1n98psuje3vs1ct3pd28dpo(a)4ax.com: >> >>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:26:35 -0600, DanS >>> <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t(a)r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote: >>> >>>>MM <kylix_is(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in >>>>news:prjao5t8g9ht9qnhsltatkveqsev5enpma(a)4ax.com: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:50:58 -0600, DanS >>>>> <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t(a)r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>><SNIP> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Poorly designed ? That's not up to me to decide. That is the >>>>>>>>official list of accepted timezone names according to whatever >>>>>>>>body that controls them.... >>>>>>>>http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So I have a numeric dropdown list with the range 0 to 127 yet >>>>>>> you are coming at me with "the official list of accepted >>>>>>> timezone names", as if the poor design of the latter is >>>>>>> automatically assumed for the former. >>>>>> >>>>>>No, that was to show how bad of an idea a long drop-down box is. >>>>> >>>>> Ah, so it was as I thought: You took one particular *poor* >>>>> implementation and attribute badness to all other implementations. >>>> >>>>Actually, no. I took the example I had just coded in an application >>>>two days ago because I still had the text file sitting right on my >>>>desktop, and, the only one I knew was a very long list. (And I'm not >>>>going to start searching the internet for a program that had long >>>>drop-down lists in it, becasue this thread nowhere near worth that >>>>kind of effort.) >>>> >>>><SNIP> >>>>> >>>>> Stop Press: I've just taken that Linux list, reversed it so that >>>>> the city name precedes the continent, and whacked it into a new >>>>> Access database. I've created a form with a combobox, specifying >>>>> the 'Cities' table. Bingo! Typomatic out of the box. >>>>> >>>>> Type in Lon and it completes with London - Europe. Type in Ne and >>>>> it completes with New York - America. Press Enter and the correct >>>>> entry is confirmed (in the correct letter case, too). Couldn't be >>>>> simpler. >>>> >>>>Except that New York - America is not a valid entry. >>> >>> I didn't create the list, I just used it. >>> >>>>Now after you select that, you need to format it back to >>>>America/New_York before you can use it, which is also code that >>>>needs to be debugged, documented, and maintained. >>> >>> Why does it need to be formatted back? >> >>Because that is what Linux is expecting to see. Those are the defacto >>standardized time zone names. It will not accept 'New York - America', >>it is expecting 'America/New_York'. >> >>> In any case, I really think >>> you're splitting hairs now. This was merely an example, not a study >>> into geographical locations. >> >>Yes, it was merely an example....and geographic locations had nothing >>to do with this, that just happens to be what the data was. >> >>Let me explain everything then...... >> >>It was an example showing a really long drop-down list that you don't >>know what the hell your looking for, and how bad that can be, which >>was what I was trying to say..... >> >>......but I wasn't really aware that you were just validating a string >>a number in a specified range..... >> >>......and how you didn't want to write code that needed to be >>maintained, debugged, and documented.......although, if you've got to >>spend more than 2 minutes writing a function to verify that a string >>is a valid number between 1 and whatever........ >> >>I guess it all comes down to is that I'm just not 'worthy' of your >>software. > > Now that my application has finally become clear to you, do you agree > with my use of a combobox with typomatic that obviates any need for > extra checking code? Sorry, but no. I've got a value in my current project is a numerical choice between (and inclusive of) 0 and 30. I chose a slider control. I also don't want to talk about this any longer.
From: Dee Earley on 25 Feb 2010 12:30
On 25/02/2010 14:28, MM wrote: > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:04:02 +0000, Dee Earley > <dee.earley(a)icode.co.uk> wrote: > >> On 24/02/2010 13:56, MM wrote: >>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:28:59 -0600, DanS >>> <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t(a)r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote: >>>>>> The problem I always have with a big dropdown box is what if I don't >>>>>> know what I'm looking for ? >>>>> >>>>> If you don't know, how could you type it into to a textbox instead? >>>> >>>> That isn't the point, the point was very long drop-down boxes, not >>>> extering text. Scrolling through 1000+ entries of which I'm not sure what >>>> I need is a problem. >>> >>> You don't appear to understand how it works. The point is indeed about >>> entering text. The user will see the default value in the textbox >>> portion of the combobox and will either overtype it or drop the list >>> down. You don't scroll through 1000+ entries, you simply type the >>> value you want which you would have to do anyway if you were typing >>> into a textbox. >> >> Not if you don't know EXACTLY how the text starts. > > If you don't know exactly how the text starts, how are you going to be > able to type it in to a plain textbox? That's why a textbox is freeform text :) If the app expects particular strings, then it should present those in a suitable format (list if a few items, tree or filtered lists otherwise) >> A more intelligent dropdown like auto complete that can match on any >> part of the text is required for this. > > Fine. But that is not what I need here, since I only have the range 0 > to 127 or 0 to 3000 to present to the user. So use a control that is specifically designed for selecting numbers. > I dislike spin controls for reasons already explained to Karl. And you > don't see them very often in commercial software either, whereas you > see comboboxes (aka dropdowns) all the time. I see them all the time. This is just windows itself (not many apps built in :) 1) Date control panel, year and time pickers (admittedly the year one has been redesigned in vista+) 2) Screen saver wait interval 3) Windows appearence item size (Oddly, the font size is a drop down, presumably as they may not be contiguous) 4) Task Scheduler time and interval options 5) Start menu "item" count Most of Office(2007) uses them for spacing/sizes (font size excepted as above) Visual Studio uses them haphazardly through the settings window Most other number enty places I can find use a slider (as the number itself won't mean anything), a text box (normally freeform like the modem control panel that accepts commas, etc) or a list/combobox if the numbers are non contiguous. My phone uses them in some places, but silly scrollers in others which while looking nice are a PITA to change more than ~20 entries. -- Dee Earley (dee.earley(a)icode.co.uk) i-Catcher Development Team iCode Systems |