I strongly dislike Python 3
in [Python]
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From: Ben Finney on 1 Jul 2010 01:02 Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS(a)cybersource.com.au> writes: > On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:13:53 +1000, Ben Finney wrote: > > > Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS(a)cybersource.com.au> writes: > >> I suppose in principle those extra three key presses (shift-9 > >> shift-0 vs space) could be the straw that breaks the camel's back, > >> but I doubt it. > > > > There's also Fitt's Law to consider: the space bar is big and > > easily-placed and hence easy to type in the middle of a stream of > > other keystrokes. None of that is true for the parens. > > This is true, but there's nothing unique to print about that. Non sequitur. The issue is one of the *difference* being observed (from Python 2 to Python 3): between the use of spaces versus parens for delimiting an argument sequence. Merely counting keystrokes isn't enough, in light of Fitt's Law. > Personally, I think that the parentheses should be where the square > brackets are, square brackets should be moved to where curly brackets > are, and curly brackets moved to shift-9 and shift-0. But I don't care > enough to remap my keyboard. Right. I'm much more concerned about the position of my Ctrl key, to avoid hand injury from all the key chording done as a programmer. -- \ “Books and opinions, no matter from whom they came, if they are | `\ in opposition to human rights, are nothing but dead letters.” | _o__) —Ernestine Rose | Ben Finney
From: geremy condra on 1 Jul 2010 01:16 On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python(a)benfinney.id.au> wrote: > Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS(a)cybersource.com.au> writes: > >> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:13:53 +1000, Ben Finney wrote: >> >> > Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS(a)cybersource.com.au> writes: >> >> I suppose in principle those extra three key presses (shift-9 >> >> shift-0 vs space) could be the straw that breaks the camel's back, >> >> but I doubt it. >> > >> > There's also Fitt's Law to consider: the space bar is big and >> > easily-placed and hence easy to type in the middle of a stream of >> > other keystrokes. None of that is true for the parens. >> >> This is true, but there's nothing unique to print about that. > > Non sequitur. The issue is one of the *difference* being observed (from > Python 2 to Python 3): between the use of spaces versus parens for > delimiting an argument sequence. > > Merely counting keystrokes isn't enough, in light of Fitt's Law. > >> Personally, I think that the parentheses should be where the square >> brackets are, square brackets should be moved to where curly brackets >> are, and curly brackets moved to shift-9 and shift-0. But I don't care >> enough to remap my keyboard. > > Right. I'm much more concerned about the position of my Ctrl key, to > avoid hand injury from all the key chording done as a programmer. Not saying its a cure-all, but I broke my hand pretty badly a few years ago and had a lot of luck with a homemade foot switch for each of the meta keys. Was pretty fun to do (all things considered) and worked pretty well. I'm sure if you're willing to do some shopping around you could get a prefab one fairly cheaply. Geremy Condra
From: Lou Pecora on 1 Jul 2010 09:54 In article <3f35dcf5-25ff-4aa7-820c-592cbffa4b42(a)u26g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>, rantingrick <rantingrick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 30, 4:21�pm, geremy condra <debat...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Actually, I agree with this complaint though- it is much easier to type > > spaces than parens. > > Oh Geremy please. If you're going to whine about something at least > find something worth whining about! Yes a few more key strokes are > needed. But print should have been a function from day one. The > benefits of a print function over a print statement are obvious to > those who seek the truth and lost on those who wallow in self pity. If > it's that much trouble for you then pick up an editor that auto > inserts parenthesis for you, or *gasps* write a routine yourself. Look > i know masturbation makes you lazy, but geez! Hey, guys (gals?), Don't any of you have typing utilities that will fill in text after you hit a special key-combination? I get print " typed automatically by holding two modifier keys and hitting 'p' key. Sounds harder than it is and it's really fast. So if I switch to Python 3 I would change that to print(" . E.g. for the Mac there are programs (utilities that run in the background) like Quickeys and TypeItForMe that allow you to do all sorts of automatic inserting of commonly used text. They're cheap and easy to use. There must be something like this for Linux and Windows, no? -- -- Lou Pecora
From: Ricardo Aráoz on 1 Jul 2010 10:50 On 30/06/2010 01:23 p.m., Lie Ryan wrote: > On 07/01/10 01:42, Michele Simionato wrote: > >> On Jun 30, 2:52 pm, Lie Ryan<lie.1...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 06/27/10 11:24, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>> Producing print function takes a little bit more effort than producing a >>>>>> print statement. >>>>>> >>> >>>> (1) The main use-cases for print are quick (and usually dirty) scripts, >>>> interactive use, and as a debugging aid. >>>> >>> That is precisely how the quick-and-dirty syntax of print statement can >>> be justified. While debugging, you'll need to be able to quickly add and >>> delete prints here and there, and the extra parens can quickly become >>> irritating. >>> >> Actually when debugging I use pdb which uses "p" (no parens) for >> printing, so having >> print or print() would not make any difference for me. >> > You mean I have to start a full-blown debugger to figure out the value > of a variable? No thanks, debugger has its use for stepping through > program, but not when printing values is sufficient. > Let's, as an exercise, count how many keystrokes and clicks you have spent on this thread and others complaining on the subject. How many programs do you think you could debug with this count (considering you spend a stroke in each print sentence, and I assume you being smart will not need many prints to figure out problem)? So let's say you'll keep complaining for a couple of years till you are ready to adopt Py3. You see what I mean? If you stop complaining right now the keystrokes you'll save will mean you'll have no extra typing to do at all. HTH
From: Aahz on 1 Jul 2010 10:58
In article <mailman.50.1277932895.1673.python-list(a)python.org>, geremy condra <debatem1(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Steven D'Aprano ><steve(a)remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote: >> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:52:06 +1000, Lie Ryan wrote: >>> >>> That is precisely how the quick-and-dirty syntax of print statement can >>> be justified. While debugging, you'll need to be able to quickly add and >>> delete prints here and there, and the extra parens can quickly become >>> irritating. >> >> *rolls eyes* >> >> Not as irritating as people who complain about having to type parentheses. > >http://www.xkcd.net/297/ http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/90q2/lispcode.html -- Aahz (aahz(a)pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not start writing it." --Dijkstra |