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From: Bill Anderson on 18 Jan 2010 13:15
Paul wrote:
> Bill Anderson wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>> Bill Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Question: Could a failing power supply have been causing the video
>>>> card flakiness? And if so, does it make any sense to replace the
>>>> current power supply with the PC Power and Cooling unit when it
>>>> arrives on Monday?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The best way to tell, would be to connect an oscilloscope to the 12V
>>> rail,
>>> and watch what happens to the voltage, when the video card does a VPU
>>> recover. A multimeter may not be able to catch a quick dip
>>> in the voltages.
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Paul:
>>
>> Here's what's happened so far:
>>
>> I sent the unit to OCZ and 2 or three weeks later (two days ago) it
>> came back. When I opened the box I suspected I was looking at my
>> original unit, as the rubber band I'd used to bind the wiring was
>> still attached. No information was included to indicate what had been
>> found or what had been done. So I sent a message to OCZ asking what
>> had been done to the unit. The response was that the unit had been
>> "repaired," but the technician who did the work had gone home for the
>> day. Would I like the guy I was emailing to to ask the technician
>> what had been done? I replied, "yes, please."
>>
>> Now today I've received this:
>>
>> Comment: Hello Bill,
>>
>> Does your power supply work now?
>>
>> Our technician could not find any problems with your power supply. It
>> was thoroughly tested.
>>
>> Allen Chung
>>
>>
>> So ... I responded as follows:
>>
>>
>> Hi Allen:
>>
>> A few comments:
>>
>> 1) It's annoying that I must correspond with you via your "Add comment
>> to trouble ticket" website. Because I can't see our past messages to
>> each other -- because I have no record of what I've told you before --
>> I feel I must recap everything in every message. Can't you include an
>> email trail in your responses? As it is, there's no record in my note
>> this evening to indicate what I told you in the first place about my
>> problem, nothing to explain why you thought an RMA might be required
>> in the first place.
>>
>> 2) I pretty much suspected that even though in an earlier message you
>> told me my power supply had been "repaired," nothing had been done to
>> it. I'm not surprised. The problem was intermittent and I worried
>> that you would get the PS and test it and find nothing wrong.
>>
>> 3) Thank you at least for following up and answering my questions
>> about what has been done with the unit I sent you. But I must point
>> out that if I'd received a note with the unit when it was returned,
>> something along the lines of "Mr. Anderson, we couldn't find anything
>> wrong with this unit, we think it's not the cause of your problem, and
>> we recommend you re-install it," you and I could have been spared some
>> unnecessary correspondence. At least I wouldn't have needed to treat
>> this episode as a mystery needing to be solved.
>>
>> 4) I will re-install the power supply this evening. Who knows? Maybe
>> it'll work with no problems for the life of my computer. Maybe the
>> problem was caused by a loose connection. Maybe. But I'm telling
>> you, when I removed the 610 watt PC Power and Cooling power supply and
>> replaced it with a no-name 400 watt power supply, the problem went
>> away. I have not experienced any of the symptoms I described to you
>> in my first message since removing the PC Power and Cooling unit. But
>> ... let's give it another go and keep our fingers crossed!
>>
>> Thanks for your attention to my difficulties.
>>
>
> I guess we'll know, when you do the test *again* and it fails :-(
>
> Paul


Well look here -- I've come back to update a thread that's almost a year
old. Never thought it would take this long to revisit the subject, but
here I am again.

To recap: Last February my computer would refuse to post when I turned
it on in the mornings. The fans would fire up and the optical disk
drive light would come on, but no post, no boot. So I'd hold the power
button in for about five seconds and the power would shut off and I'd
push the button again and this time the computer would post and boot --
or not. Repeat, repeat, repeat, ah ... there's the beep and we're in
business.

My best guess, and the best guess around here, was that the power supply
was the problem. When I removed my PC Power and Cooling power supply
and replaced it with a no-name spare, the problem went away. Ah-hah!

So I told my story to a nice technician at PC Power and Cooling and he
had me ship the unit back to him and in a few days it came back to me
unchanged. They "could not find any problems."

So I put it back in the computer as described above and to my complete
surprise the computer has been posting and booting flawlessly ever
since. At least it has until about a week ago.

Now I'm back to where I was before -- power on, no post, power off,
power on, no post, power off, power on, BEEP!, and everything works
great. Maybe it takes one retry, maybe five. But eventually the
computer will post. At least that's how it's been so far.

I've put the no-name power supply back in the computer and it's running
fine. I'm going to give it a few days to see if the problem returns
with the no-name PS. If it does, I'll know the problem is with the
motherboard or memory or something. If I go several weeks with no
problem, I'll probably put the PC Power and Cooling PS back in to see if
the problem returns. If it does, then I'll call PC Power and Cooling
(or whoever owns them now -- OCZ) and fuss. If it works with no
problem, well, maybe I'll get another year's worth of use out of it.

Can anybody think of something other than the PS that would cause this
sort of behavior?

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog
From: Bob on 18 Jan 2010 13:33
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:15:18 -0500, Bill Anderson
<billanderson601(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>Well look here -- I've come back to update a thread that's almost a year
>old. Never thought it would take this long to revisit the subject, but
>here I am again.
>
>To recap: Last February my computer would refuse to post when I turned
>it on in the mornings. The fans would fire up and the optical disk
>drive light would come on, but no post, no boot. So I'd hold the power
>button in for about five seconds and the power would shut off and I'd
>push the button again and this time the computer would post and boot --
>or not. Repeat, repeat, repeat, ah ... there's the beep and we're in
>business.
>
>My best guess, and the best guess around here, was that the power supply
>was the problem. When I removed my PC Power and Cooling power supply
>and replaced it with a no-name spare, the problem went away. Ah-hah!
>
>So I told my story to a nice technician at PC Power and Cooling and he
>had me ship the unit back to him and in a few days it came back to me
>unchanged. They "could not find any problems."

I've only remembered to do this once, but when one returns something,
it's good to put a very small mark on it somewhere, so when he gets it
back, he can tell if it is the same one or not. In your case they
were honest with you, I guess, but not everyone is. Sometimes I
think they pretend to replace something but just send the same one
back.

Similarly when you return something at a store that you know doesn't
work right, you can check if they put yours out for sale again. A
small mark, tiny enough that it won't be noticed by the next buyer (if
repaired or sold without being repaired), is best.

I think this happened to me or someone I know with a fairly expensive
piece of electronics once that they just put it out for sale again.

>So I put it back in the computer as described above and to my complete
>surprise the computer has been posting and booting flawlessly ever
>since. At least it has until about a week ago.
>
>Now I'm back to where I was before -- power on, no post, power off,
>power on, no post, power off, power on, BEEP!, and everything works
>great. Maybe it takes one retry, maybe five. But eventually the
>computer will post. At least that's how it's been so far.
>
>I've put the no-name power supply back in the computer and it's running
>fine. I'm going to give it a few days to see if the problem returns
>with the no-name PS. If it does, I'll know the problem is with the
>motherboard or memory or something. If I go several weeks with no
>problem, I'll probably put the PC Power and Cooling PS back in to see if
>the problem returns. If it does, then I'll call PC Power and Cooling
>(or whoever owns them now -- OCZ) and fuss. If it works with no
>problem, well, maybe I'll get another year's worth of use out of it.

You're pretty throrough. I think I'd be convinced by now, but your
method is better.

>Can anybody think of something other than the PS that would cause this
>sort of behavior?

From: Bill Anderson on 19 Jan 2010 08:57
Bob wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:15:18 -0500, Bill Anderson
> <billanderson601(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Well look here -- I've come back to update a thread that's almost a year
>> old. Never thought it would take this long to revisit the subject, but
>> here I am again.
>>
>> To recap: Last February my computer would refuse to post when I turned
>> it on in the mornings. The fans would fire up and the optical disk
>> drive light would come on, but no post, no boot. So I'd hold the power
>> button in for about five seconds and the power would shut off and I'd
>> push the button again and this time the computer would post and boot --
>> or not. Repeat, repeat, repeat, ah ... there's the beep and we're in
>> business.
>>
>> My best guess, and the best guess around here, was that the power supply
>> was the problem. When I removed my PC Power and Cooling power supply
>> and replaced it with a no-name spare, the problem went away. Ah-hah!
>>

OK, I really need some help now. This morning, with the no-name spare
PS installed, I powered up the computer but it didn't post. I powered
down as described above, waited a few seconds, and pushed the power
button again. This time the computer powered up and after a few seconds
it powered down. Then it powered up again and then it powered down.
Then it powered up and then it powered down again, this time for good.
I didn't touch the computer at all during this -- I just watched in
amazement.

Then I pushed the power button and powered up and no post. So I powered
down and powered up again and this time I got a beep and now all is well.

The problem isn't the power supply. But what could it be? I don't know
what to look at first. Help?

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog
From: Michael W. Ryder on 19 Jan 2010 16:08
Bill Anderson wrote:
> Bob wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:15:18 -0500, Bill Anderson
>> <billanderson601(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well look here -- I've come back to update a thread that's almost a
>>> year old. Never thought it would take this long to revisit the
>>> subject, but here I am again.
>>>
>>> To recap: Last February my computer would refuse to post when I
>>> turned it on in the mornings. The fans would fire up and the optical
>>> disk drive light would come on, but no post, no boot. So I'd hold
>>> the power button in for about five seconds and the power would shut
>>> off and I'd push the button again and this time the computer would
>>> post and boot -- or not. Repeat, repeat, repeat, ah ... there's the
>>> beep and we're in business.
>>>
>>> My best guess, and the best guess around here, was that the power
>>> supply was the problem. When I removed my PC Power and Cooling power
>>> supply and replaced it with a no-name spare, the problem went away.
>>> Ah-hah!
>>>
>
> OK, I really need some help now. This morning, with the no-name spare
> PS installed, I powered up the computer but it didn't post. I powered
> down as described above, waited a few seconds, and pushed the power
> button again. This time the computer powered up and after a few seconds
> it powered down. Then it powered up again and then it powered down.
> Then it powered up and then it powered down again, this time for good. I
> didn't touch the computer at all during this -- I just watched in
> amazement.
>
> Then I pushed the power button and powered up and no post. So I powered
> down and powered up again and this time I got a beep and now all is well.
>
> The problem isn't the power supply. But what could it be? I don't know
> what to look at first. Help?
>
It could very well be the power supply as some need a little time to
warm up when they are marginal. Another place to look would be the
power switch but I don't think this is the problem.
From: mikea on 19 Jan 2010 16:26
Michael W. Ryder <_mwryder55(a)gmail.com> wrote in <3bp5n.186$Np1.130(a)newsfe19.iad>:
> Bill Anderson wrote:

>> OK, I really need some help now. This morning, with the no-name spare
>> PS installed, I powered up the computer but it didn't post. I powered
>> down as described above, waited a few seconds, and pushed the power
>> button again. This time the computer powered up and after a few seconds
>> it powered down. Then it powered up again and then it powered down.
>> Then it powered up and then it powered down again, this time for good. I
>> didn't touch the computer at all during this -- I just watched in
>> amazement.
>>
>> Then I pushed the power button and powered up and no post. So I powered
>> down and powered up again and this time I got a beep and now all is well.
>>
>> The problem isn't the power supply. But what could it be? I don't know
>> what to look at first. Help?
>>
> It could very well be the power supply as some need a little time to
> warm up when they are marginal. Another place to look would be the
> power switch but I don't think this is the problem.

If you want to stress-test the power supply, you can use a hair dryer to
inject hot air into it. This will accelerate any thermally-induced failures
that you're already having, but there is a chance that it will induce
additional failures: there is an element of risk in doing this.

You also can use the hair dryer to heat sections of the mobo, if you
suspect that there are thermally-induced failures there.

Cold gas can be got from a can of compressed-gas keyboard cleaner. Use it
just as you do the hair dryer, but to see if problems occur as things get
cooler. Try _HARD_ not to spray the liquified gas directly on components.

Overall, I suspect that it may be time for a new motherboard.

--
Mike Andrews, W5EGO
mikea(a)mikea.ath.cx
Tired old sysadmin
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