Interesting AGP warning LED problem
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From: kimiraikkonen on 11 Jan 2008 04:16 On Jan 11, 2:54 am, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote: > kimiraikkonen wrote: > > On Jan 11, 1:35 am, "DaveW" <radiat...(a)nuclear.org> wrote: > >> It sounds like either your motherboard and/or video card are finally dying > >> after all these years. > > >> -- > >> --DaveW > > >> "kimiraikkonen" <kimiraikkone...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >>news:150ed2df-70d6-4cd0-add9-79a5c5617797(a)q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com.... > > >>> Hi, > >>> I have Asus P4B533 working for many years with no problem till > >>> recently. I had some graphic card-related problems then after next > >>> boot ups display didn't come or flickering occured. > >>> However now, the display is provided but AGP warning LED lighted up > >>> but the most interesting thing is that also standby (green) led lights > >>> up also at the same time during operation. > >>> The graphic card is also Asus V8170DDR (old) is being used without any > >>> AGP warning LED problem since first day of purchase. > >>> So, please help for these questions: > >>> 1-What is the reason of red AGP warning LED + standby LED + good > >>> display operation at the same time? > >>> 2-If i remove this fully AGP compatible card from AGP slot, also red > >>> AGP warning LED lights up. Why? > >>> Note: My graphic card which is Asus V8170DDR/SE Geforce4 MX440 is > >>> fully compatible with +1.5V AGP specification and was working with no > >>> problem until recently. > >>> Thanks in advance. > >>> Regards.- Hide quoted text - > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Maybe, i don't know maybe someone confirms, should AGP warning LED > > light up eventhough there's no AGP cards installed or no? (mobo > > powered-on(stand-by) state) > > My understanding of the logic of "AGP warn" is: > > If (AGP card is inserted) AND (TYPEDET# = floating) THEN Power_Off_System > > That is how it is supposed to work. If no AGP card is plugged in, the > red LED should stay off. It could be that just the red LED driver is > defective. > > Note that the circuit consists of a couple transistors, some resistors, > the red LED, and a connection to the TYPEDET#. At least that is what is > on my P4B SDRAM motherboard (one of the first boards with AGP protection). > > The board would not be able to power up, if that circuit detects a > problem. The circuit should not be enabled, if no AGP card is present. > When an AGP card is put in place, then the transistor circuit is > supposed to test the state of the TYPEDET# pin. TYPEDET# is supposed > to be grounded - that indicates the video card is using 1.5V for VIO in > the AGP slot. > > I would not panic, if the video card has been working for some time. > It is unlikely that something has changed about TYPEDET#. The VIO > regulation on the motherboard is also unlikely to respond to TYPEDET# > floating, and should deliver a steady 1.5V. > > So don't worry about it. Just an annoyance. > > As for the Standby LED, it is supposed to be always illuminated. On > Asus motherboards, it is connected directly to +5VSB, as a monitor. > You aren't supposed to pull cards or RAM out of the motherboard, if > the green LED is lit. The green LED is there, to warn you to turn off > the power supply, before doing any work inside the computer. > > Paul- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Hi Paul, The problem is interesting, although my working graphic card is placed in AGP slot, the red warnin light lits but although this, system boots up but sometimes goes through Windows, sometimes hangs at POST and usually drops into BIOS with comlaning a kind of impoper CPU speed although all the CPU parameters are default / no OC. I was working on that system for many years with no problem. Suddenly, yesterday, while typing , writing on forums, the display started to go off and come back with irregular times, first i though it was my old Asus Geforce4 VGA card, but more annoying problems arised, even my VGA card gave a burn smoke but it worked after that problem, but now the motherboard gives AGP warning LED + standby LED and together and my VGA card is inserted and mobo's AGP warning LED lits when system is powered-off + AGP card inserted, when i boot up, usually system won't boot with no beep (another interesting point), then sometimes goes to directly BIOS complaining like "You're in safe mode, make sure CPU speed is proper" like that which is unrelated to display. I want to know the exact and understanding way of these questions reply: 1-Why doesn't AGP warning LED goes off though there's no card installed? It sees as an incorrect card is installed. 2-Why does the system goes in to BIOS with complaining with that message which is unrelated to my VGA card? Here is the full/exact message in BIOS after opening this PC which is having a fully compatible AGP card inserted also having a AGP warning LED also standby led(green): "During the last boot-up, your system hung for an impoper CPU speed setting. Your system is no working in safe mode. To optimize the system performance and reliability, make sure the CPU speed conforms to the specifications of your CPU." Meanwhile, Paul, i'm not a BIOS programmer so could you explain what "TYPEDET#" means? So, what do you think about the problem? Is the defective part mobo? Note: All the VGA + mobo capacitors are good, no leakage or bulged ones. Sorry if my English is not enough. Thanks for care... Regards.
From: kimiraikkonen on 11 Jan 2008 04:24 On Jan 11, 11:16 am, kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkone...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jan 11, 2:54 am, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote: > > > > > > > kimiraikkonen wrote: > > > On Jan 11, 1:35 am, "DaveW" <radiat...(a)nuclear.org> wrote: > > >> It sounds like either your motherboard and/or video card are finally dying > > >> after all these years. > > > >> -- > > >> --DaveW > > > >> "kimiraikkonen" <kimiraikkone...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > > >>news:150ed2df-70d6-4cd0-add9-79a5c5617797(a)q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com.... > > > >>> Hi, > > >>> I have Asus P4B533 working for many years with no problem till > > >>> recently. I had some graphic card-related problems then after next > > >>> boot ups display didn't come or flickering occured. > > >>> However now, the display is provided but AGP warning LED lighted up > > >>> but the most interesting thing is that also standby (green) led lights > > >>> up also at the same time during operation. > > >>> The graphic card is also Asus V8170DDR (old) is being used without any > > >>> AGP warning LED problem since first day of purchase. > > >>> So, please help for these questions: > > >>> 1-What is the reason of red AGP warning LED + standby LED + good > > >>> display operation at the same time? > > >>> 2-If i remove this fully AGP compatible card from AGP slot, also red > > >>> AGP warning LED lights up. Why? > > >>> Note: My graphic card which is Asus V8170DDR/SE Geforce4 MX440 is > > >>> fully compatible with +1.5V AGP specification and was working with no > > >>> problem until recently. > > >>> Thanks in advance. > > >>> Regards.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > Maybe, i don't know maybe someone confirms, should AGP warning LED > > > light up eventhough there's no AGP cards installed or no? (mobo > > > powered-on(stand-by) state) > > > My understanding of the logic of "AGP warn" is: > > > If (AGP card is inserted) AND (TYPEDET# = floating) THEN Power_Off_System > > > That is how it is supposed to work. If no AGP card is plugged in, the > > red LED should stay off. It could be that just the red LED driver is > > defective. > > > Note that the circuit consists of a couple transistors, some resistors, > > the red LED, and a connection to the TYPEDET#. At least that is what is > > on my P4B SDRAM motherboard (one of the first boards with AGP protection). > > > The board would not be able to power up, if that circuit detects a > > problem. The circuit should not be enabled, if no AGP card is present. > > When an AGP card is put in place, then the transistor circuit is > > supposed to test the state of the TYPEDET# pin. TYPEDET# is supposed > > to be grounded - that indicates the video card is using 1.5V for VIO in > > the AGP slot. > > > I would not panic, if the video card has been working for some time. > > It is unlikely that something has changed about TYPEDET#. The VIO > > regulation on the motherboard is also unlikely to respond to TYPEDET# > > floating, and should deliver a steady 1.5V. > > > So don't worry about it. Just an annoyance. > > > As for the Standby LED, it is supposed to be always illuminated. On > > Asus motherboards, it is connected directly to +5VSB, as a monitor. > > You aren't supposed to pull cards or RAM out of the motherboard, if > > the green LED is lit. The green LED is there, to warn you to turn off > > the power supply, before doing any work inside the computer. > > > Paul- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Hi Paul, > The problem is interesting, although my working graphic card is placed > in AGP slot, the red warnin light lits but although this, system boots > up but sometimes goes through Windows, sometimes hangs at POST and > usually drops into BIOS with comlaning a kind of impoper CPU speed > although all the CPU parameters are default / no OC. I was working on > that system for many years with no problem. > > Suddenly, yesterday, while typing , writing on forums, the display > started to go off and come back with irregular times, first i though > it was my old Asus Geforce4 VGA card, but more annoying problems > arised, even my VGA card gave a burn smoke but it worked after that > problem, but now the motherboard gives AGP warning LED + standby LED > and together and my VGA card is inserted and mobo's AGP warning LED > lits when system is powered-off + AGP card inserted, when i boot up, > usually system won't boot with no beep (another interesting point), > then sometimes goes to directly BIOS complaining like "You're in safe > mode, make sure CPU speed is proper" like that which is unrelated to > display. > > I want to know the exact and understanding way of these questions > reply: > 1-Why doesn't AGP warning LED goes off though there's no card > installed? It sees as an incorrect card is installed. > 2-Why does the system goes in to BIOS with complaining with that > message which is unrelated to my VGA card? > > Here is the full/exact message in BIOS after opening this PC which is > having a fully compatible AGP card inserted also having a AGP warning > LED also standby led(green): > > "During the last boot-up, your system hung for an impoper CPU speed > setting. Your system is no working in safe mode. To optimize the > system performance and reliability, make sure the CPU speed conforms > to the specifications of your CPU." > > Meanwhile, Paul, i'm not a BIOS programmer so could you explain what > "TYPEDET#" means? > > So, what do you think about the problem? Is the defective part mobo? > > Note: All the VGA + mobo capacitors are good, no leakage or bulged > ones. > > Sorry if my English is not enough. > > Thanks for care... > > Regards.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Note to my previous reply: My powersupply is not defective and has no improper voltage output, i checked and usually check the outputs through BIOS or Windows. The values are: +3.3V --> +3.32 +5V --> +5.1 +12V --> + 12.16 Vcore --> 1.52 (on load, normal for my P4 2.4B 533fsb cpu) So i don't think it was because of a power supply. Thanks in advance. Regards.
From: Paul on 11 Jan 2008 05:49 kimiraikkonen wrote: > On Jan 11, 11:16 am, kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkone...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> "kimiraikkonen" <kimiraikkone...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:150ed2df-70d6-4cd0-add9-79a5c5617797(a)q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I have Asus P4B533 working for many years with no problem till >>>>>> recently. I had some graphic card-related problems then after next >>>>>> boot ups display didn't come or flickering occured. >>>>>> However now, the display is provided but AGP warning LED lighted up >>>>>> but the most interesting thing is that also standby (green) led lights >>>>>> up also at the same time during operation. >>>>>> The graphic card is also Asus V8170DDR (old) is being used without any >>>>>> AGP warning LED problem since first day of purchase. >> Hi Paul, >> The problem is interesting, although my working graphic card is placed >> in AGP slot, the red warnin light lits but although this, system boots >> up but sometimes goes through Windows, sometimes hangs at POST and >> usually drops into BIOS with comlaning a kind of impoper CPU speed >> although all the CPU parameters are default / no OC. I was working on >> that system for many years with no problem. >> >> Suddenly, yesterday, while typing , writing on forums, the display >> started to go off and come back with irregular times, first i though >> it was my old Asus Geforce4 VGA card, but more annoying problems >> arised, even my VGA card gave a burn smoke but it worked after that >> problem, but now the motherboard gives AGP warning LED + standby LED >> and together and my VGA card is inserted and mobo's AGP warning LED >> lits when system is powered-off + AGP card inserted, when i boot up, >> usually system won't boot with no beep (another interesting point), >> then sometimes goes to directly BIOS complaining like "You're in safe >> mode, make sure CPU speed is proper" like that which is unrelated to >> display. >> >> I want to know the exact and understanding way of these questions >> reply: >> 1-Why doesn't AGP warning LED goes off though there's no card >> installed? It sees as an incorrect card is installed. >> 2-Why does the system goes in to BIOS with complaining with that >> message which is unrelated to my VGA card? >> >> Here is the full/exact message in BIOS after opening this PC which is >> having a fully compatible AGP card inserted also having a AGP warning >> LED also standby led(green): >> >> "During the last boot-up, your system hung for an impoper CPU speed >> setting. Your system is no working in safe mode. To optimize the >> system performance and reliability, make sure the CPU speed conforms >> to the specifications of your CPU." >> >> Meanwhile, Paul, i'm not a BIOS programmer so could you explain what >> "TYPEDET#" means? >> >> So, what do you think about the problem? Is the defective part mobo? >> >> Note: All the VGA + mobo capacitors are good, no leakage or bulged >> ones. >> >> Sorry if my English is not enough. >> >> Thanks for care... >> >> Regards. > > Note to my previous reply: > My powersupply is not defective and has no improper voltage output, i > checked and usually check the outputs through BIOS or Windows. The > values are: > > +3.3V --> +3.32 > +5V --> +5.1 > +12V --> + 12.16 > Vcore --> 1.52 (on load, normal for my P4 2.4B 533fsb cpu) > > So i don't think it was because of a power supply. > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards. TYPEDET# is one of the pins on the video card edge connector. It is a way for the video card to declare its preferred operating voltage for the I/O signals on the AGP interface. When the video card grounds TYPEDET#, it means the video card wishes for 1.5V. When TYPEDET# is not electrically connected by the video card, that signals a preference by the video card, for 3.3V I/O supply voltage. To learn more about AGP, you can read this document, stored on an archive server. http://web.archive.org/web/20030314013601/http://developer.intel.com/technology/agp/downloads/agp30_final_10.pdf Now, about your problem. Would you agree, that a burning smell is not a normal thing ? The burning smell is not coming from the AGP warning circuit. There must be some kind of powering problem present in your system, and that could make the burning. The motherboard does have regulator circuits on the motherboard. For example, there is a circuit to make voltage for the memory sticks. A circuit to make voltage for the Northbridge and the Southbridge. A circuit to make VIO for the AGP slot. These derive their voltage from a main supply rail. But, typically, the voltages are not connected to the hardware monitor of voltage. So you cannot easily observe the voltages and see that they are incorrect. (You would need a multimeter and some knowledge of the motherboard construction, to verify the voltages.) A defective motherboard could produce an improper voltage. That could lead to a burning smell. I don't know where that voltage might go, and which other circuits it might affect. So far, your symptoms do not isolate a single cause of the problem. It could be the motherboard, but I cannot pick a single item from your symptoms, and say that it is proven. And to find a replacement motherboard, with AGP slot, that will take your processor, won't be that easy. Your power supply voltages look good, and I don't see a reason to suspect your power supply. Paul
From: kimiraikkonen on 11 Jan 2008 06:16 On Jan 11, 12:49 pm, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote: > kimiraikkonen wrote: > > On Jan 11, 11:16 am, kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkone...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> "kimiraikkonen" <kimiraikkone...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>>news:150ed2df-70d6-4cd0-add9-79a5c5617797(a)q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>> I have Asus P4B533 working for many years with no problem till > >>>>>> recently. I had some graphic card-related problems then after next > >>>>>> boot ups display didn't come or flickering occured. > >>>>>> However now, the display is provided but AGP warning LED lighted up > >>>>>> but the most interesting thing is that also standby (green) led lights > >>>>>> up also at the same time during operation. > >>>>>> The graphic card is also Asus V8170DDR (old) is being used without any > >>>>>> AGP warning LED problem since first day of purchase. > >> Hi Paul, > >> The problem is interesting, although my working graphic card is placed > >> in AGP slot, the red warnin light lits but although this, system boots > >> up but sometimes goes through Windows, sometimes hangs at POST and > >> usually drops into BIOS with comlaning a kind of impoper CPU speed > >> although all the CPU parameters are default / no OC. I was working on > >> that system for many years with no problem. > > >> Suddenly, yesterday, while typing , writing on forums, the display > >> started to go off and come back with irregular times, first i though > >> it was my old Asus Geforce4 VGA card, but more annoying problems > >> arised, even my VGA card gave a burn smoke but it worked after that > >> problem, but now the motherboard gives AGP warning LED + standby LED > >> and together and my VGA card is inserted and mobo's AGP warning LED > >> lits when system is powered-off + AGP card inserted, when i boot up, > >> usually system won't boot with no beep (another interesting point), > >> then sometimes goes to directly BIOS complaining like "You're in safe > >> mode, make sure CPU speed is proper" like that which is unrelated to > >> display. > > >> I want to know the exact and understanding way of these questions > >> reply: > >> 1-Why doesn't AGP warning LED goes off though there's no card > >> installed? It sees as an incorrect card is installed. > >> 2-Why does the system goes in to BIOS with complaining with that > >> message which is unrelated to my VGA card? > > >> Here is the full/exact message in BIOS after opening this PC which is > >> having a fully compatible AGP card inserted also having a AGP warning > >> LED also standby led(green): > > >> "During the last boot-up, your system hung for an impoper CPU speed > >> setting. Your system is no working in safe mode. To optimize the > >> system performance and reliability, make sure the CPU speed conforms > >> to the specifications of your CPU." > > >> Meanwhile, Paul, i'm not a BIOS programmer so could you explain what > >> "TYPEDET#" means? > > >> So, what do you think about the problem? Is the defective part mobo? > > >> Note: All the VGA + mobo capacitors are good, no leakage or bulged > >> ones. > > >> Sorry if my English is not enough. > > >> Thanks for care... > > >> Regards. > > > Note to my previous reply: > > My powersupply is not defective and has no improper voltage output, i > > checked and usually check the outputs through BIOS or Windows. The > > values are: > > > +3.3V --> +3.32 > > +5V --> +5.1 > > +12V --> + 12.16 > > Vcore --> 1.52 (on load, normal for my P4 2.4B 533fsb cpu) > > > So i don't think it was because of a power supply. > > > Thanks in advance. > > > Regards. > > TYPEDET# is one of the pins on the video card edge connector. It is > a way for the video card to declare its preferred operating voltage > for the I/O signals on the AGP interface. When the video card > grounds TYPEDET#, it means the video card wishes for 1.5V. When > TYPEDET# is not electrically connected by the video card, that > signals a preference by the video card, for 3.3V I/O supply voltage. > > To learn more about AGP, you can read this document, stored on an > archive server. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20030314013601/http://developer.intel.com/... > > Now, about your problem. Would you agree, that a burning smell is > not a normal thing ? The burning smell is not coming from the > AGP warning circuit. There must be some kind of powering problem > present in your system, and that could make the burning. > > The motherboard does have regulator circuits on the motherboard. > For example, there is a circuit to make voltage for the memory > sticks. A circuit to make voltage for the Northbridge and the > Southbridge. A circuit to make VIO for the AGP slot. These > derive their voltage from a main supply rail. But, typically, > the voltages are not connected to the hardware monitor of > voltage. So you cannot easily observe the voltages and see > that they are incorrect. (You would need a multimeter and > some knowledge of the motherboard construction, to verify the > voltages.) > > A defective motherboard could produce an improper voltage. That > could lead to a burning smell. I don't know where that voltage > might go, and which other circuits it might affect. > > So far, your symptoms do not isolate a single cause of the problem. > It could be the motherboard, but I cannot pick a single item from > your symptoms, and say that it is proven. And to find a replacement > motherboard, with AGP slot, that will take your processor, won't be > that easy. > > Your power supply voltages look good, and I don't see a reason > to suspect your power supply. > > Paul Hi Paul, Thanks for taking care and good explanations. Here is the current situation: Existing AGP card is inserted, mobo boots up and comes to Windows with no problem, but the AGP warning led is not stable, after some computer operation it begins to lit for some reason, if i remove and re-insert card, it doesn't lit. But during normal operation it doesn't lit for a while, then suddenly it lits but this light has no effect on graphic or other computer operation. I can play 3D games and surf Windows but sometimes the screen may go off and come off for a short time.(don't know the reason also). Additionaly, another interesting point, if i press or touch the AGP card slightly with my fingers while it's inserted and operating on Windows, "sometimes" but not always AGP warning led comes and goes for an instant. I mean i don't it's a fluky/chance that when i touch the seated card to make sure it's completely seated, AGP warning LED lits for a time. But this is rare. However, the burn smoke on VGA card's GPU is not present, but after some testing i can report if additional problems occurs about displaying. Never had such problems with that good mobo so far, I trusted Asus components over the years, today i'm so surprised because of an unknown hardware reason. Thanks!
From: Paul on 11 Jan 2008 06:27
kimiraikkonen wrote: > > Hi Paul, > Thanks for taking care and good explanations. Here is the current > situation: > > Existing AGP card is inserted, mobo boots up and comes to Windows with > no problem, but the AGP warning led is not stable, after some computer > operation it begins to lit for some reason, if i remove and re-insert > card, it doesn't lit. But during normal operation it doesn't lit for a > while, then suddenly it lits but this light has no effect on graphic > or other computer operation. I can play 3D games and surf Windows but > sometimes the screen may go off and come off for a short time.(don't > know the reason also). > > Additionaly, another interesting point, if i press or touch the AGP > card slightly with my fingers while it's inserted and operating on > Windows, "sometimes" but not always AGP warning led comes and goes for > an instant. I mean i don't it's a fluky/chance that when i touch the > seated card to make sure it's completely seated, AGP warning LED lits > for a time. But this is rare. > > However, the burn smoke on VGA card's GPU is not present, but after > some testing i can report if additional problems occurs about > displaying. > > Never had such problems with that good mobo so far, I trusted Asus > components over the years, today i'm so surprised because of an > unknown hardware reason. > > Thanks! I would not recommend poking the video card while power is applied. It would not take too much movement of the AGP card, before there would be trouble. AGP uses two rows of contacts, and a slight slip would cause the wrong pins to get connected together. I do not have a complete circuit diagram for "AGP warn". I only traced the circuit, from the TYPEDET# pin to a transistor, on my P4B board. I did not trace the whole circuit, as that would have taken forever. It is very time consuming to trace the copper, and without identification for all the components, I still might not understand the whole thing. I stopped tracing the circuit, once I could see they were using TYPEDET#. (When I first got my P4B motherboard, I didn't understand how the AGP warn would work. So I traced the circuit just a little bit.) The idea of the circuit, is supposed to be that the ATX power supply gets switched off, if the red LED is on. Your red LED operating state, doesn't seem to affect the power supply like it should. As far as I know, there are two transistors in the circuit. But how they work together, I don't know. Paul |