Is it Art? WAS:Re: How to talk like a programmer
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From: Pete Dashwood on 28 May 2010 02:12 Howard Brazee wrote: > On Thu, 27 May 2010 15:24:40 +1200, "Pete Dashwood" > <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: > >>> Sadly. I agree. But that doesn't decrease the cesspool that the IT >>> indistry is sinking into. And, as a real IT Professional I am more >>> concerned about my art than others. >>> >> >> A thought-provoking post, Bill. >> >> Is IT today an "art" or an "occupation", a "science" or something >> else entirely? > > It seems to me that artists and fans of art are more ready to complain > about lowering of standards than professionals are. Probably > because it's harder to measure achievement in the arts. I work on the Executive committee of a national Arts magazine here, Howard. I really like the other people involved (all artists of one form or another) and enjoy working with them, but it is stressful sometimes. :-) I can confirm that you are correct in what you wrote above. Getting something actually produced is like herding cats. They are SO perfectionist about stuff that I am constantly reminding them to look again at the purposes, goals, and priorities. So the proof from the printer for the latest edition has a 7mm cover bleed instead of 11mm. (I actually had someone come to my house in tears over this and it took quite some time to calm her down.) Or some poetry is not exactly aligned or laid out precisely as the author wrote it. It isn't the end of the world, (well not of MY world at least.) I write a column for this magazine and in the last 7 issues it has been produced correctly on one occasion. I never make a noise about it, just smile and keep it in perspective. Obviously what matters is the content. I don't happen to like the cover of the latest edition but I'm sure not going into a decline over it. The Art Editor is happy with it and it is his responsibility. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean that no-one else will. I'm much more concerned that high standards are maintained inside than I am about the cover being perfect or not... But for arty people these are matters of great pitch and moment. (Working with them has been an education for me... :-)) Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Anonymous on 28 May 2010 09:27 In article <8690e4F41vU1(a)mid.individual.net>, Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >> In article <l31tv51dgaubqnt00k90p5nfb6r5lmmi6f(a)4ax.com>, >> SkippyPB <swiegand(a)Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >>> As for programming being an "Art"...the old saying, "Art for Art's >>> Sake" seems appropriate. I take pride in my programs but many of the >>> younger folks I work with do not take pride in theirs. They don't >>> care about efficiency of code; they don't care that they could easily >>> reduce redundancy; they don't care if the 5 deep nested IF is hard to >>> read etc. etc. Get it done, hope it works, move on is the latest way >>> to do things. >> >> The 'durned fool kids nowadays' stuff aside... it has been posted, >> repeatedly, that programming will reach a state where source code is >> unnecessary. Who cares if you can't read the stuff if you don't have >> to? Who cares about efficiency when your wristwatch has more >> computing power than did the early space flights? Who cares about >> *anything* because All Ya Gotta Do is write another object and all >> the problems Just Go Away? > >Doc, > >it is only fair to tell you that, having frequented this forum for far too >long, I have actually absorbed some of what you say. :-) No, no, Mr Dashwood, do not absorb gently my prattlings in the night; rage, rage against excessive absorbancy! [snip] >Thank you for this. :-) Pshaw, Mr Dashwood... it is worth at least twice... nay, *thrice* what I've asked to be paid for it. DD
From: Anonymous on 28 May 2010 09:45 In article <868vkhFvidU1(a)mid.individual.net>, Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >SkippyPB wrote: [snip] >> I take pride in my programs but many of the >> younger folks I work with do not take pride in theirs. They don't >> care about efficiency of code; they don't care that they could easily >> reduce redundancy; they don't care if the 5 deep nested IF is hard to >> read etc. etc. [snip] >My personal belief about this is that is caused by the lack of self >discipline we see reflected in society. In countries like Israel where young >people do military service and learn, self-confidence, leadership and >discipline they go on to achieve more. Here in NZ we have a generation of >parents who never understood what discipline means (many people equate >discipline incorrectly with punishment) and so they over-indulge their kids >and we have a generation who expect to have everything they want, right now. >Consequently, we find people with credit card debt of tens of thousands of >dollars by the time they are in their mid-twenties, an expectation of >instant gratification, the attention span of a flea, and the attitude that >if something is difficult, move on to something else... Note, class, the reflective calls of species-reinforcement of the Grey-Chested Olde Farte, almost identical to those of the Golfcap-Sporting Hyperannuated Duffer. In such cases one member of the species asserts its identity by warbling a series of tones bemoaning the passing of the Oldene Dayse; the other member, in order to demonstrate the solidarity of kindred genetics, responds in a contrapunctal fashion and extends the first's melody to another set of conditions which both feel reinforces their own membership in what Durkheim called 'the we-group'. This is noted on page 125 of your text 'Gammers, Gaffers, Geezers and What You May Live Long Enough To Become'. While the specifics of the calls vary the tonality and concept-transmission remains remarkably constant, a 'Why, when *I* was a lad (situation) was (superior) and nowadays kids are too stupid/incompetent/lazy to sit down to defecate.' Examples of this behavior can be found in the works of Homer. At the same time... the facts that technology improves (where were the MRI machines forty years ago?), life expectancy (in many cases) increases and the amount of time to accomplish a many tasks decreases while the accuracy of the result increases are completely ignored.... an' don't git me started on what them kids're callin' 'music', neither... bunchan durned noise, 'f'ya ask me!.' DD
From: Howard Brazee on 28 May 2010 10:23 On Thu, 27 May 2010 15:49:53 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf(a)panix.com () wrote: >Who cares if you can't read the stuff if you don't have to? >Who cares about efficiency when your wristwatch has more computing power >than did the early space flights? One thing that I have in common with the young people - I don't wear a wristwatch. I've got a phone in my pocket, so why do I need a watch on my wrist? -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison
From: Howard Brazee on 28 May 2010 10:27
On Fri, 28 May 2010 16:37:37 +1200, in comp.lang.cobol "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >>> I find it discouraging when other people claim they "work in IT" >>> simply because they are the only person in their department that >>> writes Excel macros or keyboard macros to 'automate' some otherwise >>> menial tasks. > >It's a bit like someone claiming to be an astronaut because they once >visited the Kennedy Space Centre... :-) Hmmm, at least have them be a pilot. Visiting the Kennedy Space Center is more like turning on one's computer. (I was a pilot, and I've ridden the vomit comet, so let me make that outrageous claim). -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |