From: robert bristow-johnson on
On Mar 13, 12:15 am, Les Cargill <lcargil...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>
> > we know that the periodic "dirac comb" function (with period 1/f0) in
> > the time domain is another dirac comb in the frequency domain, but i'm
> > not gonna prove it.
>
> >                   +inf
> >     d(t) = 1/f0 * SUM{ delta(t - n/f0) }
> >                  n=-inf
>
> > has for a Fourier Transform:
>
> >                 +inf
> >     D(f) =      SUM{ delta(f - k*f0) }
> >                k=-inf
>
> > f0 is the fundamental frequency of this periodic function.  in the
> > frequency domain, there is a spike (a dirac impulse) of height=1
> > spaced apart from its neighbor by f0.
>
> > now we run that impulse train, d(t), through an ideal brickwall low-
> > pass filter with frequency response:
>
> >     H(f) = 1/(2N) * rect( f/((2N+1)*f0) )
>
> > where
>
> >               { 1    |u| < 1/2
> >     rect(u) = {
> >               { 0    |u| > 1/2
>
> > the rect() function is centered at u=0 has height of 1 and width of
> > 1.  rect(1/2) usually is defined as 1/2.
>
> > H(f) has gain of 1 in the passband and the passband width is (2N+1)*f0
> > (encompassing both positive and negative f).  that means there are 2N
> > +1 spikes in the frequency domain that are passed (with gain 1/(2N))
> > and all the rest are killed.  one dirac spike at DC, N spikes in
> > positive frequency and N spikes in negative frequency.
>
> > the output spectrum is
>
> >                                      N
> >     Y(f) = H(f) * D(f) =   1/(2N) * SUM{ delta(f - k*f0) }
> >                                     k=-N
>
> > the impulse response of that filter is:
>
> >     h(t) = 1/(2N) * (2N+1)*f0 * sinc((2N+1)*f0*t)
>
> Sorry, but what is the basis for this? It's a deconvolution, but
> what's the name of the mechanism that justifies this transform?
>
> I am, uh, not up to deconvolution as an art form just yet.

it's not about deconvolutions. it's about a Fourier Transform pair:

if x(t) = rect(t)

then X(f) = sinc(f)

that can be figgered out by use of an integral. there's the use of
the "duality" theorem to switch f and t around, and then there is some
scaling and linearity involved and that is the basis for the impulse
response, h(t). this is what they made me learn when i took my first
class in Communications Systems as an undergrad (not meant to be a
criticism, just to point out that it's not really rocket science).
that transform pair with d(t) and D(f) is another.

r b-j
From: Les Cargill on
robert bristow-johnson wrote:
> On Mar 13, 12:15 am, Les Cargill <lcargil...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>> robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>>
>>> we know that the periodic "dirac comb" function (with period 1/f0) in
>>> the time domain is another dirac comb in the frequency domain, but i'm
>>> not gonna prove it.
>>> +inf
>>> d(t) = 1/f0 * SUM{ delta(t - n/f0) }
>>> n=-inf
>>> has for a Fourier Transform:
>>> +inf
>>> D(f) = SUM{ delta(f - k*f0) }
>>> k=-inf
>>> f0 is the fundamental frequency of this periodic function. in the
>>> frequency domain, there is a spike (a dirac impulse) of height=1
>>> spaced apart from its neighbor by f0.
>>> now we run that impulse train, d(t), through an ideal brickwall low-
>>> pass filter with frequency response:
>>> H(f) = 1/(2N) * rect( f/((2N+1)*f0) )
>>> where
>>> { 1 |u| < 1/2
>>> rect(u) = {
>>> { 0 |u| > 1/2
>>> the rect() function is centered at u=0 has height of 1 and width of
>>> 1. rect(1/2) usually is defined as 1/2.
>>> H(f) has gain of 1 in the passband and the passband width is (2N+1)*f0
>>> (encompassing both positive and negative f). that means there are 2N
>>> +1 spikes in the frequency domain that are passed (with gain 1/(2N))
>>> and all the rest are killed. one dirac spike at DC, N spikes in
>>> positive frequency and N spikes in negative frequency.
>>> the output spectrum is
>>> N
>>> Y(f) = H(f) * D(f) = 1/(2N) * SUM{ delta(f - k*f0) }
>>> k=-N
>>> the impulse response of that filter is:
>>> h(t) = 1/(2N) * (2N+1)*f0 * sinc((2N+1)*f0*t)
>> Sorry, but what is the basis for this? It's a deconvolution, but
>> what's the name of the mechanism that justifies this transform?
>>
>> I am, uh, not up to deconvolution as an art form just yet.
>
> it's not about deconvolutions. it's about a Fourier Transform pair:
>
> if x(t) = rect(t)
>
> then X(f) = sinc(f)
>

Ah! Gotcha.

> that can be figgered out by use of an integral. there's the use of
> the "duality" theorem to switch f and t around, and then there is some
> scaling and linearity involved and that is the basis for the impulse
> response, h(t). this is what they made me learn when i took my first
> class in Communications Systems as an undergrad (not meant to be a
> criticism, just to point out that it's not really rocket science).

Understood.

> that transform pair with d(t) and D(f) is another.
>
> r b-j

--
Les Cargill
From: jim on


robert bristow-johnson wrote:

> it's not about deconvolutions. it's about a Fourier Transform pair:
>
> if x(t) = rect(t)
>
> then X(f) = sinc(f)
>
If you are dealing with discrete data. this would be

if x[t] = rect(t)
then X[x] = sin(N*pi*x)/N*sin(pi*x)

where square brackets indicate you are working with discrete samples.

Sin(Nx)/sin(x) is often called a periodic sinc (Dirichlet). That
waveform can be generated as a sum of of cosine functions - that may be
what Les was trying to say.


-jim