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From: Elliott Roper on 6 Aug 2010 17:46 In article <1jmr7p5.196h17c14mrkznN%real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid>, Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > Martin S Taylor <mst(a)hRyEpMnOoVtEiTsHm.cIo.uSk> wrote: > > > Rowland McDonnell wrote > > > In the UK at least, there are no law *enforcement* agents as such. Our > > > police aren't supposed to *enforce* the law at all. > > > > > > The job, as I understand it, is basically `nicking villans and > > > maintaining the Queen's peace' sortathing. > > > > Isn't that what enforcing the law means? > > Enforcing the law is when you force people to follow it, rather than > `keep a lid on public disorder and haul in those who break the law' as > our plod are supposed to do. AIUI, IANAL. Why are there signs on the roads round here saying "Police Enforcement Cameras"? Are the cameras enforcing the police into some behaviour or other? Are the police enforcing the cameras? Or could it mean that the police own / operate the cameras and they are enforcing us to obey something? Could it be a speeding Law? No! The police are not law enforcement agents What could it possibly mean? -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
From: Rowland McDonnell on 7 Aug 2010 03:33 Elliott Roper <nospam(a)yrl.co.uk> wrote: > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > Martin S Taylor <mst(a)hRyEpMnOoVtEiTsHm.cIo.uSk> wrote: > > > > > Rowland McDonnell wrote > > > > In the UK at least, there are no law *enforcement* agents as such. Our > > > > police aren't supposed to *enforce* the law at all. > > > > > > > > The job, as I understand it, is basically `nicking villans and > > > > maintaining the Queen's peace' sortathing. > > > > > > Isn't that what enforcing the law means? > > > > Enforcing the law is when you force people to follow it, rather than > > `keep a lid on public disorder and haul in those who break the law' as > > our plod are supposed to do. AIUI, IANAL. > > Why are there signs on the roads round here saying > "Police Enforcement Cameras"? Good question. Read on for what I think the answer is. > Are the cameras enforcing the police into some behaviour or other? > Are the police enforcing the cameras? > Or could it mean that the police own / operate the cameras and they are > enforcing us to obey something? It's called `using language dishonestly to cause a shift in public attitudes so that the authorities can modify the role of the police to enforcement without complaints'. Except that our cops don't like the idea of being made into American-style law *ENFORCEMENT* `operatives'. So I'm not too worried. (Erm, yes, I *HAVE* spoken to a few on the subject.) btw, the cops don't own the cameras in the general case. Who knows who owns each one? There are various different set-ups. It was all about making money from speeding motorists rather than traffic safety - which is best improved by stopping other forms of breaking the law. STFW for more details. > Could it be a speeding Law? > No! The police are not law enforcement agents > What could it possibly mean? It means that they want to make money from fining speeding motorists. Since that has not worked well, and since the Libtory misrule we're currently suffering thinks that widespread use of fixed speed cameras is a bad idea, a lot of them are *ALREADY* out of service and due to be removed. STFW for more details. I ALSO suggest that you stop sounding off on this subject until you've done some actual research into it rather than just yelling out your misconceptions. That is, look up the role of the British police (well, never mind NI cops, who knows about *their* specific role these days[1]? I suspect it's slightly different to the rest of the nation). Rowland. [1] Most of the population of NI, I expect - they're quite good at finding out the *precise* facts of this sort of thing. And yes, yes, I know that because of my conversations with NI folk too. I might be wrong about a lot of this stuff, but it's not my internal ideas I'm spouting, it's stuff that I've learnt from the world around me. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
From: Peter Creosote on 7 Aug 2010 04:58
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 08:33:28 +0100, Rowland McDonnell babbled: > Elliott Roper <nospam(a)yrl.co.uk> wrote: > >> Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Martin S Taylor <mst(a)hRyEpMnOoVtEiTsHm.cIo.uSk> wrote: >>> >>> > Rowland McDonnell wrote >>> > > In the UK at least, there are no law *enforcement* agents as such. Our >>> > > police aren't supposed to *enforce* the law at all. >>> > > >>> > > The job, as I understand it, is basically `nicking villans and >>> > > maintaining the Queen's peace' sortathing. >>> > >>> > Isn't that what enforcing the law means? >>> >>> Enforcing the law is when you force people to follow it, rather than >>> `keep a lid on public disorder and haul in those who break the law' as >>> our plod are supposed to do. AIUI, IANAL. >> >> Why are there signs on the roads round here saying >> "Police Enforcement Cameras"? > > Good question. Read on for what I think the answer is. > >> Are the cameras enforcing the police into some behaviour or other? >> Are the police enforcing the cameras? >> Or could it mean that the police own / operate the cameras and they are >> enforcing us to obey something? > > It's called `using language dishonestly to cause a shift in public > attitudes so that the authorities can modify the role of the police to > enforcement without complaints'. You are very confused. How can they enforce anything if there are no complaints? > > Except that our cops don't like the idea of being made into > American-style law *ENFORCEMENT* `operatives'. So I'm not too worried. Boo! Boo! America bad. > > (Erm, yes, I *HAVE* spoken to a few on the subject.) Would that have been when you were sectioned? > > btw, the cops don't own the cameras in the general case. Who knows who > owns each one? There are various different set-ups. Obviously you've never been a writer. A professional would never write anything as silly as "various different". Either "Various" or "different" work, but "various different" is the mark of an amateur since it's clearly redundant. > > It was all about making money from speeding motorists rather than > traffic safety - which is best improved by stopping other forms of > breaking the law. Yes, they use the money to hold the annual Coppers' Ball. > > STFW for more details. > >> Could it be a speeding Law? >> No! The police are not law enforcement agents >> What could it possibly mean? > > It means that they want to make money from fining speeding motorists. Usually from some fool on a motorbike. > > Since that has not worked well, and since the Libtory misrule we're > currently suffering thinks that widespread use of fixed speed cameras is > a bad idea, a lot of them are *ALREADY* out of service and due to be > removed. > > STFW for more details. > > I ALSO suggest that you stop sounding off on this subject until you've > done some actual research into it rather than just yelling out your > misconceptions. I take it that you have published papers on this subject? Citations please. > > That is, look up the role of the British police (well, never mind NI > cops, who knows about *their* specific role these days[1]? I suspect > it's slightly different to the rest of the nation). Let me spell it out for you; coppers catch criminals, rest of nation commits the crimes. What's so hard about that? > > Rowland. > > [1] Most of the population of NI, I expect - they're quite good at > finding out the *precise* facts of this sort of thing. And yes, yes, I > know that because of my conversations with NI folk too. You've been sectioned there? > > I might be wrong about a lot of this stuff, but it's not my internal > ideas I'm spouting, it's stuff that I've learnt from the world around > me. Yes, you're wrong about all of it. So tell us, your ideas exist outside of your body? I think you are ready for the loony bin. |