LS9/16 - not the desk for me
in [Live Sound]
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From: Eeyore on 27 Nov 2008 22:35 liquidator wrote: > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote > > > > Well you have 240V too. > > That wasn't the only spec...did you gloss over the 3 phase? It's not the number of phases per se but the *power consumption* that determines such things. I'll bet it doesn't require 3 phase here. > And the 240 isn't readily available at mix position ..usually backstage... Well, I can't speak for your electrical systems. We have these for pro use. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_&_multiphase_power_plugs_&_sockets#Europe-wide_IEC_60309_system The Horn's amp rack is powered by a dedicated 32A 240V feed (about 7.5kW) Unless you're nuts the USA will one day adopt these connectors. "Entertainment Industry Throughout Europe one of the common uses of industrial power connectors is in the Professional Sound, Video and Lighting industry where there is a need for vast amounts of power, delivered through quickly pluggable and unpluggable connectors. In this industry they are referred to as 'Ceeform' connectors. 230V single-phase (blue) and 400V three-phase (red). Connectors between 16A and 125A ratings are used." No tails to worry about ! > I wouldn't buy the dang thing- apparently wost wouldn't... They're very popular for theatre. Graham
From: liquidator on 28 Nov 2008 08:12 "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:492F671A.38DB814B(a)hotmail.com... > > > liquidator wrote: > > > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote > > > > > > Well you have 240V too. > > > > That wasn't the only spec...did you gloss over the 3 phase? > > It's not the number of phases per se but the *power consumption* that determines > such things. I'll bet it doesn't require 3 phase here. > > > > And the 240 isn't readily available at mix position ..usually backstage... > > Well, I can't speak for your electrical systems. We have these for pro use. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_&_multiphase_power_plugs_&_sockets#E urope-wide_IEC_60309_system > > The Horn's amp rack is powered by a dedicated 32A 240V feed (about 7.5kW) > > Unless you're nuts the USA will one day adopt these connectors. > > "Entertainment Industry > Throughout Europe one of the common uses of industrial power connectors is in > the Professional Sound, Video and Lighting industry where there is a need for > vast amounts of power, delivered through quickly pluggable and unpluggable > connectors. In this industry they are referred to as 'Ceeform' connectors. 230V > single-phase (blue) and 400V three-phase (red). Connectors between 16A and 125A > ratings are used." > > No tails to worry about ! > > > > I wouldn't buy the dang thing- apparently wost wouldn't... > > They're very popular for theatre. > Whatever..I don't really care much about your standards as i don't work with them...the point is you made a comment regarding US standards that were way off... If Cadac was designing orducts based on standards the US may adopt, you can see why they went out of business...you seem to have exactly the same mindset. Products should adapt to the market, not the market should adapt to the product. If you and Cadac do not suit the markets needs, you will just be passed over. And sitting around wondering what went wrong. I'm not going to jump through hoops to get miniscule improvements. And if one company designs to fit their ego needs instead of my work needs, I will just buy somebody else's product. Forcing your needs on the customer is a very low level way of doing business. Very common with learned people- they turn into evangelicals...trying to spread their point of view, blissfully unaware it's not valid for anybody else. Not trying to slam you, it's just obvious from reading your posts you have not done a lot of touring. I am NOT gonna haul a mixer that has to have special power all around the country. Defend Cadac's design all you want- they lost out in the market. Had they had engineers with more common sense they might still be in business.
From: Eeyore on 28 Nov 2008 08:15 liquidator wrote: > Whatever..I don't really care much about your standards as i don't work with > them... You will soon. The USA is the ONLY country seriously out of line. Graham
From: Bob Howes on 28 Nov 2008 09:20 "liquidator" <mikeh(a)mad.scientist.com> wrote in message news:ggoqpn$r5k$1(a)aioe.org... > > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:492F671A.38DB814B(a)hotmail.com... >> >> >> liquidator wrote: >> >> > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote >> > > >> > > Well you have 240V too. >> > >> > That wasn't the only spec...did you gloss over the 3 phase? >> >> It's not the number of phases per se but the *power consumption* that > determines >> such things. I'll bet it doesn't require 3 phase here. >> >> >> > And the 240 isn't readily available at mix position ..usually > backstage... >> >> Well, I can't speak for your electrical systems. We have these for pro > use. >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_&_multiphase_power_plugs_&_sockets#E > urope-wide_IEC_60309_system >> >> The Horn's amp rack is powered by a dedicated 32A 240V feed (about 7.5kW) >> >> Unless you're nuts the USA will one day adopt these connectors. >> >> "Entertainment Industry >> Throughout Europe one of the common uses of industrial power connectors >> is > in >> the Professional Sound, Video and Lighting industry where there is a need > for >> vast amounts of power, delivered through quickly pluggable and >> unpluggable >> connectors. In this industry they are referred to as 'Ceeform' >> connectors. > 230V >> single-phase (blue) and 400V three-phase (red). Connectors between 16A >> and > 125A >> ratings are used." >> >> No tails to worry about ! >> >> >> > I wouldn't buy the dang thing- apparently wost wouldn't... >> >> They're very popular for theatre. >> > > > Whatever..I don't really care much about your standards as i don't work > with > them...the point is you made a comment regarding US standards that were > way > off... > > If Cadac was designing orducts based on standards the US may adopt, you > can > see why they went out of business...you seem to have exactly the same > mindset. > > Products should adapt to the market, not the market should adapt to the > product. > > If you and Cadac do not suit the markets needs, you will just be passed > over. And sitting around wondering what went wrong. > > I'm not going to jump through hoops to get miniscule improvements. > > And if one company designs to fit their ego needs instead of my work > needs, > I will just buy somebody else's product. > > Forcing your needs on the customer is a very low level way of doing > business. > > Very common with learned people- they turn into evangelicals...trying to > spread their point of view, blissfully unaware it's not valid for anybody > else. > > Not trying to slam you, it's just obvious from reading your posts you have > not done a lot of touring. I am NOT gonna haul a mixer that has to have > special power all around the country. > > Defend Cadac's design all you want- they lost out in the market. Had they > had engineers with more common sense they might still be in business. > > A few points on Cadac. First off, they are still very much in business. The never ceased trading and Mark Ray (one of their sales engineers) mentioned the other day that a deal has been done on the ownership and the hope to make the formal announcement soon. (Mark mentioned this in an open forum so I don't think I'm giving away any confidences.) Second, I suspect the issue here is that they see their market more in the permanent theatre install...where, historically, they've done well. I might query the wisdom of this (especially now that their traditional market is deserting them for digital offerings with a smaller footprint) but just because the mixer wasn't designed for the use George intended doesn't make it bad. That's like saying a Ferrari is a badly designed car because it can't carry a fridge in the trunk. Don't buy one if you want cargo capacity! (But more vans will be sold than Ferraris!) Finally, I've only mixed on a Cadac a couple of times but can tell you they're brilliant. They make even Midas seem agricultural. However, whether the market will pay for brilliance, I'm far less sure these days Bob
From: Eeyore on 28 Nov 2008 09:30
Bob Howes wrote: > A few points on Cadac. > > First off, they are still very much in business. They never ceased trading > and Mark Ray (one of their sales engineers) mentioned the other day that a > deal has been done on the ownership and the hope to make the formal > announcement soon. (Mark mentioned this in an open forum so I don't think > I'm giving away any confidences.) Indeed. I heard a week ago. > Second, I suspect the issue here is that they see their market more in the > permanent theatre install...where, historically, they've done well. I might > query the wisdom of this (especially now that their traditional market is > deserting them for digital offerings with a smaller footprint) but just > because the mixer wasn't designed for the use George intended doesn't make > it bad. That's like saying a Ferrari is a badly designed car because it > can't carry a fridge in the trunk. Don't buy one if you want cargo > capacity! (But more vans will be sold than Ferraris!) > > Finally, I've only mixed on a Cadac a couple of times but can tell you > they're brilliant. They make even Midas seem agricultural. However, > whether the market will pay for brilliance, I'm far less sure these days Time will tell. Graham |