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From: Martin Racette on 21 Jul 2010 18:43
Thanks Paul

Restoring the MBR was the trick, it started to boot right after that

Thanks again

"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
news:i25ts7$i0f$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> Martin Racette wrote:
>> I got a OCZ Agility2 240Gb SSD HDD, I was able to restore the whole
>> system from a backup, it booted into Windows Vista, I did re-installed a
>> few program taht were not on the backup, when I had to re-boot I did a
>> restart, but the laptop now just stays in the HP logo screen at the
>> begining of the sequence and then nothing happen, I even tried to remove
>> the SSD, when I do this I can boot using a DVD but if I place the SSD
>> back it will not do anything at all
>>
>> BTW I did tested the SSD in an external enclosure on my desktop, and I
>> can access it
>
> I can think of some possibilities -
>
> 1) The Pavilion laptop has a problem with the SATA connector, and
> is damaging drives connected to it. But the proof that is not the case,
> is that you were able to use an external enclosure.
>
> 2) The laptop relies on some MBR (master boot record) feature,
> and somewhere along the way, you've upset the structure that
> was present when the hard drive was there.
>
> 3) Since you say the SSD is functional, as demonstrated by it working
> in an enclosure, then I guess we have to conclude it is not an
> early failure.
>
> My approach would have been to copy the hard drive, sector by sector,
> to the SSD. That would include copying the MBR. (Depending on how
> evil your laptop setup is, I might also investigate whether an
> HPA or Host Protected Area was present on the drive, as you can
> hide stuff in there, and that might be missed by a backup. HPAs
> are hard to work with. The BIOS tends to "lock the door" on HPA,
> such that the user can't play with it or inspect it. I understand
> that some piece of Linux software can tell you whether an HPA
> is present, but I don't know how reliable such indications are.)
>
> The very first step, is going to be making that SSD safe to connect
> to the computer. Seeing as you cannot boot with the thing connected
> directly to the computer, you may have to use a USB enclosure for the
> SSD, and connect it after the computer is booted.
>
> Using a Ubuntu CD, I'd try the following.
>
> 1) sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1
>
> That would erase the MBR (the first sector) on the SSD in the USB
> enclosure.
> It's the quickest way to "erase" a drive, without having to waste
> write lifetime on the drive. The name of the disk "/dev/sda", varies
> with Linux environment, so you have to use other info in Linux to
> figure it out.
>
> Erasing the SSD with DBAN, would be wasteful. It would achieve the
> same ends, only it would waste hours doing writes to all the sectors,
> largely for nothing. The "dd" command above, only takes a second.
>
> There is even a version of "dd" for Windows, but then, how are you
> going to run it, if you don't have a bootable Windows setup ?
>
> http://www.chrysocome.net/dd
>
> 2) Copy the original hard drive, sector by sector. Say the
> original hard drive was connected in a USB enclosure, and the
> SSD is back inside the laptop.
>
> sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/hda
>
> That would work, as long as the size of the two drive devices
> is consistent with the purpose. If the original hard drive was
> larger than the SSD, then some part of the original hard drive
> would be lost. You could not have a partition "out past the end"
> of where the SSD would have storage space.
>
> The dd command can also copy individual partitions, but would
> take a lot more care to do successfully. You'd need to apply
> sector offsets to the command perhaps, to end up with the partition
> in the right place.
>
> The purpose of this careful copying, is on the theory that there was
> something about the original MBR that was magic. Some laptops contain
> code for intercepting the "recovery" key press, and perhaps that is
> setup via the MBR.
>
> Other than that approach, you'd have to figure out why Vista is not
> able to boot. If you can't boot *anything* with the SSD connected,
> that may make it difficult to do a Vista repair install, or whatever
> the repair equivalent is for that.
>
> The only good news I see here, is that the SSD still seems to work.
> Keep track of how much time you have with your retailer, to get
> a quick replacement, if it looks like the thing really isn't working
> right.
>
> SSD's can have some "alignment" issues, but I see that as a performance
> issue, rather than a "refusing to work" issue. So even if the
> partition alignment is less than perfect, it should still work.
>
> On ordinary hard drives, the first partition starts at the 63rd sector,
> rather than the 64th. The flash chips, as far as I know, work in 128KB
> chunks. So some other starting location for the partition, may make a
> minor
> difference to the performance. I don't own any SSDs here, so I don't have
> a collection of utilities just for SSDs, and can't advise what is the
> best thing to do in your situation.
>
> You can spend hours chasing down the latest "polishing" techniques
> and benchmark tests. I consider not getting a device to do anything
> though, to be a much more serious issue, than getting "the best" from
> my new purchase. That will take time, to find enough articles like
> this, to get everything set up well. (Each OS has its own set of issues,
> which is part of the fun.)
>
> http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?48309-Partition-alignment-importance-under-Windows-XP-(32-bit-and-64-bit)..why-it-helps-with-stuttering-and-increases-drive-working-life.
>
> So one of your challenges, is determining what evil lurks in the HP setup
> of the disk. In the process of "restoring", did that process miss a
> step ? Is there some detail about the MBR that needs to be resolved ?
> Doing a "dd" style transfer, is a shot in the dark about there being
> some part of the restoration that is missing. If copying the original
> information sector by sector works, but restoring just the partition
> results in "failure to do anything", I'd have to suspect the HP is doing
> something with the MBR. There are some laptops, that actually rewrite
> the MBR on a boot, as the situation dictates. It allows them to "hide"
> a partition, so the user cannot access it. Or alternately, when the
> user needs it, the hidden partition can be mapped back in again.
> I consider such practices to be "evil", because they make it
> practically impossible for the average user to understand what
> the hell is going on. If any company considers doing such things,
> they should be *well documented*. As another example, say something
> is "hidden" on the drive, and normal backup techniques can't see
> that thing. Then, if the hard drive fails, you'd have no copy of that
> bit of it. (This is one of the reasons I like my home-built
> computers, because they're very "ordinary" in terms of how they're
> set up.)
>
> So part of this adventure, would be to start by analysing the original
> disk (if it is still working). You can look at the primary partition
> entries with a tool like this, while at the same time, look on the web
> for any articles that address what "tricks" were used in the setup of
> your hard drive.
>
> (Picture of PTEDIT32 output - three working primary partitions, with
> "monkey business" in two of them. Only the 0x07 partition is ordinary
> and is probably the C: partition on this computer.)
>
> http://www.vistax64.com/attachments/vista-installation-setup/7308d1224108918-hidden-partiton-recovery-dell-xps-420-dell-tbl.gif
>
> (Executable for download)
>
> ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip
>
> Paul
>
>>
>>
>> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
>> news:i1so9b$2od$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Martin Racette wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> A few days ago the primary HDD in my laptop (Pavilion DV7), decided
>>>> that it was taking a permanent break, so I am forced to replaced it and
>>>> I would like to know what you think of the Seagate ST95005620AS
>>>> Momentus XT 500GB Solid State Hybrid Drive
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Newegg reviews don't look that encouraging. The mechanical parts of
>>> it seem to suck. I'd go for a regular drive, something where the
>>> users don't have concerns with the physical aspects (vibration, failure
>>> rate).
>>>
>>> If you really want NAND flash chips that bad, buy an SSD.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

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