Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]
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From: Aaron Toponce on 27 Jul 2010 13:30 On 7/27/2010 11:20 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: > Aaron Toponce put forth on 7/27/2010 10:41 AM: > >> XFS has also had a history for randomly corrupting data. While this >> might have improved over time, I don't trust it. > > Can you cite or reference anything to back your claim? Time frame? Irix or > Linux? Serious users reported this or casual/hobbyist users? If this was > ever the case the situation could not have lasted long before patches fixed > it. Have you seen SGI's customer list and the size of the systems and storage > they run with nothing but XFS? For instance, NAS has over 1.4PB of XFS > filesystems, 1PB CXFS and over 400TB XFS: We have used it three times in the past, and lost about 5TB worth of data due to corruption. The data corruption appeared to not be the result of lost power to the drive. Imperical evidence is enough for me to stop trusting it. I've also had friends who are admins that have complained of XFS data corruption, mainly with regards to booting. I don't know their specific scenarios, but they stopped using XFS as well. > NASA trusts it with over 1PB of storage, but _you_ don't trust it? Who are > you again? How many hundreds of TB of storage do you manage on EXT3/4? ;) I guess NASA has us beat. Nothing in the PB range, that's for sure. Currently, at my location, we have about 40 TB of SAN, with another 50 TB on the way. In production, we have about 200 TB SAN. We'll be building a federated shadowing infrastructure that well have Oracle databases in 16 different locations across the United States. We're currently targeting about 20 TB in each of the 16 locations. We won't be deploying XFS. -- . O . O . O . . O O . . . O . . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O
From: Volkan YAZICI on 27 Jul 2010 13:30 On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Stan Hoeppner <stan(a)hardwarefreak.com> writes: > NASA trusts it with over 1PB of storage, but _you_ don't trust it? Who are > you again? How many hundreds of TB of storage do you manage on EXT3/4? ;) NASA also trusts Windows and NTFS too? Who are you again? I think you are confusing apples and oranges. Everbody's requirements might differ, and hence do their tools. Instead of being a tech zealot, one just need to choose the right tool for the right job. I don't even think Linus is using XFS too. Isn't he a technical person in terms of your definition? So what should we do in that case? Ask to RMS? Regards. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ocdsu93o.fsf(a)alamut.alborz.net
From: Volkan YAZICI on 27 Jul 2010 13:30 On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Stan Hoeppner <stan(a)hardwarefreak.com> writes: > Volkan YAZICI put forth on 7/27/2010 8:22 AM: > 1. Never quote forum or email posts as empirical or reliable evidence of > anything. You're right, my bad. > You quoted this FAQ item solely based on the tile, without reading it, > in your effort to denounce XFS. The article clearly states the problem > was fixed over 3 years ago, which you conveniently ignored. I read the very same sentence, but AFAIK, default kernel for xfs bundled with lenny doesn't have that fix. > From now on, please get your facts straight, with proper > documentation, before trying to denounce a fantastic piece of FOSS > into which many top-of-their-game kernel engineers have put tens of > thousands of man hours, striving to make it the best it can be--and > are wildly succeeding. > > Join the xfs mailing list and you might learn something useful in > place of this trash you're talking about it. About a year ago, in a similar rush to yours, I ported two of our PostgreSQL database servers to XFS. During testing period, I even couldn't *recover* the / fs after the very first power failure test. Whole testing period took 1 week and the result was negative. This is my experience with XFS, and not much more thrash than your technical knowledge. And instead of being a technology zealot, you'd be better put forward some real world case scenarios. Try unplugging your xfs machineS that many timeS, and let's discuss this topic again. Yep, my findings might be deprecated, but I don't know any others investigating the same subject with recent versions. BTW, I still couldn't understand your temper and rudeness. I just share my experience, and try it, it works. Regards. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87sk34u9j7.fsf(a)alamut.alborz.net
From: Stan Hoeppner on 27 Jul 2010 14:40 Volkan YAZICI put forth on 7/27/2010 12:19 PM: > About a year ago, in a similar rush to yours, I ported two of our > PostgreSQL database servers to XFS. During testing period, I even > couldn't *recover* the / fs after the very first power failure test. What write operations were you performing at the time you pulled the plug? Unless you were writing the superblock it'd be almost impossible to hose the filesystem to the point it couldn't mount. Were you doing a resize operation when you pulled the plug? xfs_growfs? As far as recovery, it's automatic upon mounting the XFS filesystem. What do you mean, precisely, by "couldn't *recover* the / fs"? And apologies if my tone seemed rude. I'm basically a one man army trying to defeat misinformation WRT XFS and attempt to educate ppl with the correct information. I guess I'm feeling outnumbered and thus being more aggressive. Again, apologies. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4C4F27D6.1070206(a)hardwarefreak.com
From: Stan Hoeppner on 27 Jul 2010 14:50
Volkan YAZICI put forth on 7/27/2010 12:29 PM: > I don't even think Linus is using XFS too. Isn't he a technical person Linus uses them all. You should know that. > in terms of your definition? So what should we do in that case? Ask to > RMS? kernel.org servers all run XFS as well. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4C4F299A.9090207(a)hardwarefreak.com |