Linux is getting Crappier
in [Computers]
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From: Doug Jewell on 31 Oct 2009 17:48 Gary R. Schmidt wrote: > Doug Jewell wrote: >> I generally quite like Linux. I've run it on servers since it's early >> days, and every now and then I try it as a desktop OS. > [SNIP rant] > > It's not *Linux* that is your problem, but ATI. No, that is only _part_ of the problem. Ubunutu 9.10 has also broken resume from suspend which did work on earlier editions, and it has now broken something in the filesystem / hard drive interface that is causing major corruption on hard reset, that didn't happen in earlier editions. > > If ATI released decent drivers to the Linux world, then your display > would work. ATI drivers did work with earlier editions - on my current laptop they worked perfectly with ubuntu 7.10. As I see it, the goal posts keep changing. Note that my graphics card IS on the ATI supported list. > > The above sentence can be repeated ad infinitum replacing "ATI" with > "manufacturer of item X" and "display" with "X". And that is 90% of the problem. Linux will never be ready for primetime until they get hardware and software support up to scratch. Part of that will be setting some standards - every distro is different about how it wants things done. > > And "released decent drivers" can be replaced with "released > specifications" or "released information not under a Non-Disclosure > Agreement that prevents an open-source driver being written" and > variations thereon. > > Linux cannot force manufacturers to produce drivers for hardware, the > manufacturers will only do so when they feel that it will not cost them > anything, or if *not* producing them will cost them something. > > Write nasty letters to ATI, if you want ATI to (adequately) support Linux. > > I use nVidia, they seem to have better support, at least for Solaris, > which I run in preference to Linux, and, of course, systems for which I > can get no or inadequate Linux or Solaris drivers, such as the laptop I > am posting from, run Windows. (Well, it runs OpenSUSE fine, but I > don't like what they've done with their Gnome Desktop, so I don't run it.) > > Cheers, > Gary B-) -- What is the difference between a duck?
From: Doug Jewell on 31 Oct 2009 17:50 z1 wrote: > Doug Jewell wrote: >> I generally quite like Linux. I've run it on servers since it's early >> days, and every now and then I try it as a desktop OS. >> > > have you tried Mint? Mint is just Ubuntu with a different theme and a different selection of base apps, so highly unlikely to operate any differently. -- What is the difference between a duck?
From: me here on 31 Oct 2009 18:07 me here wrote: > z1 wrote: > > > me here wrote: > > > z1 wrote: > > > > > > > Doug Jewell wrote: > > > > > I generally quite like Linux. I've run it on servers since > > > > > it's early days, and every now and then I try it as a > > > > > desktop OS. > > > > > > > > > have you tried Mint? > > > > > > Yes. I'm not a great fan of KDE though. It's only a KDE > > > flavoured version of Ubuntu with a few media codecs thrown in. > > > > Mint is Gomme > > > > > > > > It was OK, but I prefer Ubuntu for its interface and wide ranging > > > software repositories. > > > > Mint uses the same repositiories > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always get the impression with Windows that every configuration > > > task (regardless of how often it would be used) got the same > > > treatment at the design stage regarding simplicity of use. > > > Networking is a classic case of non user friendliness. > > > > > > > in Mint its dead easy > > The version I have is KDE. > > Rob So has anyone here tried Ubuntu 9.10 yet? I was going to ask for a disc again, but they won't currently send one if you have received 9.04. So it's either a full download, or an upgrade. Anyone tried to upgrade? Rob --
From: Rod Speed on 31 Oct 2009 18:37 Sandgroper wrote > Doug Jewell <ask(a)and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote >> I generally quite like Linux. I've run it on servers since it's >> early days, and every now and then I try it as a desktop OS. >> All in all, my efforts to try linux again have been met with >> frustration. Vista isn't perfect, but at least it works. The ubuntu >> "upgrades" have introduced more bugs. Fedora is absolutely useless >> even for trivial tasks. And it appears that running anything with an >> ATI graphics card, which is the standard graphics card in about 80% >> of laptops, is a complete waste of time. > It's not that Linux is getting crappier , Thats very arguable, particularly with ubuntu. > it is just that people are getting lazier by the year and they become "point and click" experts. Most believe that a decent linux distro should automatically handle common hardware. > If you have any experience with Linux , then before you would even > do an install , you would have checked out the Hardware Compatibility > List (HCL) to make sure that your system components are compatible > with Linux or that there was driver support for the system components. You shouldnt have to fart around like that with common hardware. > If you had some Linux experience , then you should have known that the ATI video cards don't play nice with Linux > because they lack decent driver support and that you would have used a nVidia graphics card instead. Doesnt explain his other problems with ubuntu doing worse with later versions.
From: Fred on 31 Oct 2009 19:32
"Doug Jewell" <ask(a)and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote in message news:5tGdnWCr2LzHMnHXnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d(a)westnet.com.au... > Sandgroper wrote: >> "Doug Jewell" <ask(a)and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote in message >> news:9--dnWXb3qZ0VHbXnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d(a)westnet.com.au... >>> I generally quite like Linux. I've run it on servers since it's early >>> days, and every now and then I try it as a desktop OS. >>> >> < ...... snipped > >>> All in all, my efforts to try linux again have been met with >>> frustration. Vista isn't perfect, but at least it works. The ubuntu >>> "upgrades" have introduced more bugs. Fedora is absolutely useless even >>> for trivial tasks. And it appears that running anything with an ATI >>> graphics card, which is the standard graphics card in about 80% of >>> laptops, is a complete waste of time. >> >> It's not that Linux is getting crappier , it is just that people are >> getting lazier by the year and they become "point and click" experts. >> >> If you have any experience with Linux , then before you would even do an >> install , you would have checked out the Hardware Compatibility List >> (HCL) to make sure that your system components are compatible with Linux >> or that there was driver support for the system components. >> >> If you had some Linux experience , then you should have known that the >> ATI video cards don't play nice with Linux because they lack decent >> driver support and that you would have used a nVidia graphics card >> instead. > If you had noticed, almost every laptop on the market with decent > performance (ie, not a celeron with integrated intel graphics), uses ATI > graphics. NVidia ones exist, but they are as scarce as hen's teeth. HeHe, That might be related to the problems OEM's had with the G84 and G86 mobile video adapters. The ones that failed prematurely. BIOS updates were released to run the GPU fan continuously in an effort to make the GPU last longer. "Chip company Nvidia has been taken to court by some of its shareholders and others in a class action over faulty graphics chips with an abnormally high failure rate. Class-action cases allow anyone who feels they have been affected by the case to join in, and share in any subsequent recompense. In this case, Nvidia is accused of making misleading statements about its GPU chips between November 2007 and July 2008. As a result of denying the problems, the plaintiffs say, the company underestimated expenses and overestimated revenues on its balance sheet. This led to "a material negative impact on the company's financial condition, financial statements and future business prospects," according to Kantrowitz, Goldhamer & Graifman, PC, the law firm that filed the suit on behalf of the plaintiffs. The suit was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California on Wednesday. In July, Nvidia filed a report with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, which stated that the company would incur US$150 million to US$200 million reduction in revenue through the cost of the return, repair and replacement of faulty components. Nvidia blamed weak die and packaging material for its problems with its MCP and GPU products used in notebook systems. As an emergency measure, Nvidia developed a software driver that would turn fans on to "reduce the thermal pressure" on the chips, and urged customers to "change the thermal management of the MCP and GPU products in their notebook system designs". > Not only that, but ATI graphics DID work in 7.10 with my current laptop, > but wireless and sound didn't. With 8.04 wireless and sound started > working, but ATI graphics stopped working. > Furthermore, with 9.10 something else has been broken, and now resume from > suspend doesn't work, and it is getting major hard drive corruption if it > needs a hard reset. That is nothing to do with ATI or nVidia. Running > without ATI drivers worked perfectly (albeit slowly) on earlier versions > and now it doesn't, so something else has broken. > > -- > What is the difference between a duck? |