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From: Tim Streater on 18 Nov 2009 09:53
On 2009-11-17 22:46:59 +0000,
real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid (Rowland McDonnell) said:

> Underwhelming? It's the `noughties' in which the EU got a constitution,
> even if it had to lie and cheat and con to get away with it (and even if
> I do think it's a really bad idea that'll lead to nothing but tears).

Yes. I also think it'll end in tears. Caused, in the long run, by the
anti-democratic contempt shown by the EU bigwigs towards the populace.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

From: Marlon on 19 Nov 2009 04:02
Ian McCall wrote:
> On 2009-11-15 03:56:41 +0000, peter(a)cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) said:
>
>> Last night on BBC3, in the relentlessly (and deliberately) superficial
>> 'The noughties- was that it?'....
>
>
> Good title - it's been a rather underwhelming decade really, hasn't it.
> Personally a lot's happened to me (a lot very good, some unfortunately
> not so good), but I'm more thinking of the general world at large.
>
> Glad to get this one out the way.

Well, yeah, but.... I do wonder just how many people are going into the
next decade full of renewed optimism?
Will the next decade bring: increased world stability, a decrease in the
possibilities of despots getting their hands on nuclear weapons, less
drain on the worlds limited natural resources, less irreversible
environmental damage,an increase in levels of education, an NHS service
that works on a National level, a reduction in low-level crime,
politicians putting the needs of people before demands of business.

But on the plus side, I have every hope and expectation that we will
start to see real evidence of Microsoft fading away in importance and
dominance (although with that one, I think it's definitely a case of 'be
careful what you wish for', because it might just happen in terms of
what might replace it).

For me personally the noughties have seen my highest highs and my lowest
lows (but that's not been anything to do with it being the noughties
'per se').

Gawd, that was a maudling way of starting the day!

Marlon
From: Rowland McDonnell on 19 Nov 2009 07:02
Tim Streater <timstreater(a)waitrose.com> wrote:

> real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid (Rowland McDonnell) said:
>
> > Underwhelming? It's the `noughties' in which the EU got a constitution,
> > even if it had to lie and cheat and con to get away with it (and even if
> > I do think it's a really bad idea that'll lead to nothing but tears).
>
> Yes. I also think it'll end in tears.

End? There won't be any *END* to this - it'll just lead to tears, then
it'll get sorted out.

The refusal of the EU to listen to the will of the people will
inevitably result in the failure of the EU project in a big smash-up -
unless the EU changes before then.

>Caused, in the long run, by the
> anti-democratic contempt shown by the EU bigwigs towards the populace.

Nope, caused in the long run by the fact that the EU was set up to be
utterly anti-democratic. The fact that EU bigwigs want to manipulate
the population rather than ask the population is a consequence of the
fact that's how the EU was always meant to work.

The *POINT* of the EU is to remove democracy from Europe.

Don't forget that a lot of EU nations have had a very bad time from
democracy (e.g., Germany and hence everyone else), and a lot of EU
nations have had almost no experience with democracy.

For example, most of the `Iron Curtain' nations have only ever had even
/approximately/ democratic governments between 1918 and 1939, for
example. Britain's never had democracy, now I come to think of it.

Remember, democracy is a form of government in which the people vote on
the laws that will govern them - and in a democracy, it's the majority
which decides. That is not how the UK is or has ever been governed.

Rowland.

--
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