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From: DCIFRTHS on 23 Oct 2005 15:56
Paul,

I am registered at JEDEC, but I obviously missed this document. Nice find.
So at least DDR2 800 is a standard!

The Crucial FAQ directly contradicts what the reps I spoke to said. I am
also wondering how old the document is because it says that there are two
sets of timings listed for the Ballistix modules. Currently, there is only
one set of timings posted, on the site, for their current modules. I wonder
if they have changed their thinking on programming the SPD? Any Ballistix
owners out there?

You are correct regarding the chipset. It officially supports up to DDR2
667. However, the Asus site claims "native" DDR2 800 support. See quote
below:

"Native DDR2 800 Support
To attain top performance, ASUS engineers successfully unleashed the true
potential of DDR2 memory. Native DDR2 800 maximizes system performance by
eliminating the bottleneck when overclocking both the CPU and memory,
providing great performance for 3D graphics and other memory demanding
applications."

Asus may be using the "unpublished" multipliers you spoke to.

Question: Will I be able to manually adjust the BIOS to run my modules to a
slower speed, let's say, DDR2 667?


"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-2310050451360001(a)192.168.1.178...
> In article <7VF6f.3313$%A1.2424(a)trndny01>, "DCIFRTHS"
> <DCIFRTHS(a)nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The information you provided to me confirms my original posting. Anything
>> above DDR 667 is considered overclocking.
>>
>> The modules in question are Crucial Ballistix modules. The specs are here
>> http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.Asp?IMODULE=BL2KIT12864AA804
>>
>> I specifically asked Crucial what the SPD was programmed to, and they
>> insisted (more than one rep confirmed this) that it was set to the
>> timings
>> listed in the link above (4-4-4-12). This seems rather strange to me. If
>> anyone is using Ballistix modules and can confirm the part number they
>> have,
>> and what the SPD is programmed to, I would greatly appreciate it.
>>
>> I also searched for the standard JEDEC timings, but couldn't find them.
>> Kingston and Corsair have some information, but they seem to differ on
>> what
>> the standard is. I am total agreement that the SPD should be set to JEDEC
>> standards.
>
> I don't think this document is going to help matters - I was really
> surprised to find that JEDEC has put this in the free download
> catagory. PDF page 74 has some classifications for the memory -
> 800's come in 4's, 5's, and 6's , 667's in 4's and 5's, both 400's
> and 533's come in 3's and 4's.
>
> http://www.jedec.org/download/search/JESD79-2B.pdf
>
> I had to register to use the search engine, but if you are lucky,
> the document will download for you without further hassle.
>
> Now, let's review the situation on your motherboard again. Say
> that JEDEC is actually allowing DDR2-800, according to that Jan. 2005
> document above. In the BIOS, Asus can still consider the use of the
> divider that gives DDR2-800, to be non-standard, which means even
> if the top timing in the SPD is for DDR2-800, the BIOS is still under
> no obligation to go there immediately. I just looked in the Intel
> 955X chipset datasheet, and DDR2-667 is considered to be the top speed.
> That could mean, that the dividers used to get the higher memory
> clocks are undocumented or unsupported by Intel. (I didn't read
> the whole doc. My past experience is, Intel is not completely
> honest about what dividers are available.)
>
> PDF page 20 has a strange statement. And there is no elaboration
> later. It says DDR2-667 4-4-4 is not supported ? I wonder what
> the hell that means. They don't make datasheets the way they
> used to...
>
> http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/30682801.pdf
>
> I looked in the Crucial FAQ database and found this:
> http://www.crucial.com/kb/answer.asp?qid=4050
>
> "The specs for your DDR2 Ballistix products have two values
> listed. One is a "validated" value, while the other is an "SPD"
> value. Why are these different?
>
> The memory timings listed as the validated values are the timings
> that we actually test our Ballistix products to. The timings
> listed as SPD settings are the values that are programmed into
> the module's SPD. Your system's BIOS will often use these values
> as the default for your memory settings.
>
> The timing values in the SPD are not set as aggressively as the
> ones used in our test flow because many systems are not capable
> of running at these tighter timing settings. By programming less
> aggressive values into the SPD, we are able to maximize the
> number of platforms that DDR2 Ballistix products will work with
> right out of the box.
>
> To operate at the published validated timing specifications, you
> may need to manually set these parameters in your BIOS. Consult
> your motherboard manufacturer's documentation for detailed
> information on how to change these settings."
>
> They said it better than I could :-)
>
> Paul
>
>> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
>> news:nospam-2210052237550001(a)192.168.1.178...
>> > In article <JkA6f.1348$c%.952(a)trndny02>, "DCIFRTHS"
>> > <DCIFRTHS(a)nowhere.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> The chipset on this motherboard officially supports DDR2 667 as the
>> >> fastest
>> >> memory. Asus describes this motherboard as natively supporting DDR2
>> >> 800.
>> >> Can
>> >> someone explain, if the memory controller supports up to 667, how the
>> >> board
>> >> natively supports the 800 speed?
>> >>
>> >> Additionally, if I plug in a DDR2 800 module that has the SPD set at
>> >> 2.1V
>> >> with timings of 4-4-4-12, will the board recognize this module, and
>> >> overclock the memory bus to run it at those speeds, or will run it at
>> >> slower
>> >> speed by default?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for any insight to this situation!
>> >
>> > From the manual:
>> >
>> > *******
>> > DRAM Frequency [Auto]
>> >
>> > Allows you to set the DDR operating frequency.
>> >
>> > Configuration options: [Auto] [DDR2-400MHz] [DDR2-533MHz]
>> > [DDR2-667MHz] [DDR2-800MHz] [DDR2-711MHz] [DDR2-889MHz]
>> > [DDR2-1067MHz]
>> >
>> > Available DRAM frequency options in various FSB settings
>> >
>> > FSB Configuration options
>> > Auto DDR2- DDR2- DDR2- DDR2- DDR2- DDR2- DDR2-
>> > 400 533 667 711* 800* 889* 1067*
>> > FSB 1066 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>> > FSB 800 ? ? ? ? ?
>> > FSB 533 ? ? ?
>> > * Provided for overclocking purpose only.
>> > *******
>> >
>> > The SPD EEPROM chip on a DIMM, is only supposed to be programmed
>> > with JEDEC approved information. This aids compatibility, in
>> > that a BIOS only need know how to parse the expected JEDEC
>> > values. I cannot find a reference to what JEDEC currently
>> > approves, and if the max is still DDR2-667, then that is all
>> > you should be finding programmed into the SPD.
>> >
>> > AFAIK, for overclockable modules, it is up to the user to set the
>> > parameters to reach the maximum value. After all, you want the
>> > computer to be able to POST first, and then try overclocking it.
>> > If the computer failed to POST, because of some problem running
>> > at DDR2-800, you'd be pissed.
>> >
>> > Paul


From: Paul on 23 Oct 2005 19:15
In article <3WR6f.945$0V6.175(a)trndny06>, "DCIFRTHS" <DCIFRTHS(a)nowhere.com>
wrote:

> Paul,
>
> I am registered at JEDEC, but I obviously missed this document. Nice find.
> So at least DDR2 800 is a standard!
>
> The Crucial FAQ directly contradicts what the reps I spoke to said. I am
> also wondering how old the document is because it says that there are two
> sets of timings listed for the Ballistix modules. Currently, there is only
> one set of timings posted, on the site, for their current modules. I wonder
> if they have changed their thinking on programming the SPD? Any Ballistix
> owners out there?
>
> You are correct regarding the chipset. It officially supports up to DDR2
> 667. However, the Asus site claims "native" DDR2 800 support. See quote
> below:
>
> "Native DDR2 800 Support
> To attain top performance, ASUS engineers successfully unleashed the true
> potential of DDR2 memory. Native DDR2 800 maximizes system performance by
> eliminating the bottleneck when overclocking both the CPU and memory,
> providing great performance for 3D graphics and other memory demanding
> applications."
>
> Asus may be using the "unpublished" multipliers you spoke to.
>
> Question: Will I be able to manually adjust the BIOS to run my modules to a
> slower speed, let's say, DDR2 667?

I downloaded a DDR2 datasheet from Micron (126 pages!) and the
clock period for the fastest chip ranges from 3ns to 8ns.
3ns is 333MHz input clock (DDR2-667 rate). 8ns is 125MHz, which
gives less than DDR2-400 rate, meaning that DDR2, like DDR, is
backward compatible with lower rates and downward-adjustable.

Paul

>
>
> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
> news:nospam-2310050451360001(a)192.168.1.178...
> > In article <7VF6f.3313$%A1.2424(a)trndny01>, "DCIFRTHS"
> > <DCIFRTHS(a)nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Paul,
> >>
> >> The information you provided to me confirms my original posting. Anything
> >> above DDR 667 is considered overclocking.
> >>
> >> The modules in question are Crucial Ballistix modules. The specs are here
> >> http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.Asp?IMODULE=BL2KIT12864AA804
> >>
> >> I specifically asked Crucial what the SPD was programmed to, and they
> >> insisted (more than one rep confirmed this) that it was set to the
> >> timings
> >> listed in the link above (4-4-4-12). This seems rather strange to me. If
> >> anyone is using Ballistix modules and can confirm the part number they
> >> have,
> >> and what the SPD is programmed to, I would greatly appreciate it.
> >>
> >> I also searched for the standard JEDEC timings, but couldn't find them.
> >> Kingston and Corsair have some information, but they seem to differ on
> >> what
> >> the standard is. I am total agreement that the SPD should be set to JEDEC
> >> standards.
> >
> > I don't think this document is going to help matters - I was really
> > surprised to find that JEDEC has put this in the free download
> > catagory. PDF page 74 has some classifications for the memory -
> > 800's come in 4's, 5's, and 6's , 667's in 4's and 5's, both 400's
> > and 533's come in 3's and 4's.
> >
> > http://www.jedec.org/download/search/JESD79-2B.pdf
> >
> > I had to register to use the search engine, but if you are lucky,
> > the document will download for you without further hassle.
> >
> > Now, let's review the situation on your motherboard again. Say
> > that JEDEC is actually allowing DDR2-800, according to that Jan. 2005
> > document above. In the BIOS, Asus can still consider the use of the
> > divider that gives DDR2-800, to be non-standard, which means even
> > if the top timing in the SPD is for DDR2-800, the BIOS is still under
> > no obligation to go there immediately. I just looked in the Intel
> > 955X chipset datasheet, and DDR2-667 is considered to be the top speed.
> > That could mean, that the dividers used to get the higher memory
> > clocks are undocumented or unsupported by Intel. (I didn't read
> > the whole doc. My past experience is, Intel is not completely
> > honest about what dividers are available.)
> >
> > PDF page 20 has a strange statement. And there is no elaboration
> > later. It says DDR2-667 4-4-4 is not supported ? I wonder what
> > the hell that means. They don't make datasheets the way they
> > used to...
> >
> > http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/30682801.pdf
> >
> > I looked in the Crucial FAQ database and found this:
> > http://www.crucial.com/kb/answer.asp?qid=4050
> >
> > "The specs for your DDR2 Ballistix products have two values
> > listed. One is a "validated" value, while the other is an "SPD"
> > value. Why are these different?
> >
> > The memory timings listed as the validated values are the timings
> > that we actually test our Ballistix products to. The timings
> > listed as SPD settings are the values that are programmed into
> > the module's SPD. Your system's BIOS will often use these values
> > as the default for your memory settings.
> >
> > The timing values in the SPD are not set as aggressively as the
> > ones used in our test flow because many systems are not capable
> > of running at these tighter timing settings. By programming less
> > aggressive values into the SPD, we are able to maximize the
> > number of platforms that DDR2 Ballistix products will work with
> > right out of the box.
> >
> > To operate at the published validated timing specifications, you
> > may need to manually set these parameters in your BIOS. Consult
> > your motherboard manufacturer's documentation for detailed
> > information on how to change these settings."
> >
> > They said it better than I could :-)
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
> >> news:nospam-2210052237550001(a)192.168.1.178...
> >> > In article <JkA6f.1348$c%.952(a)trndny02>, "DCIFRTHS"
> >> > <DCIFRTHS(a)nowhere.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >>
> >> >> The chipset on this motherboard officially supports DDR2 667 as the
> >> >> fastest
> >> >> memory. Asus describes this motherboard as natively supporting DDR2
> >> >> 800.
> >> >> Can
> >> >> someone explain, if the memory controller supports up to 667, how the
> >> >> board
> >> >> natively supports the 800 speed?
> >> >>
> >> >> Additionally, if I plug in a DDR2 800 module that has the SPD set at
> >> >> 2.1V
> >> >> with timings of 4-4-4-12, will the board recognize this module, and
> >> >> overclock the memory bus to run it at those speeds, or will run it at
> >> >> slower
> >> >> speed by default?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for any insight to this situation!
> >> >
> >> > From the manual:
> >> >
> >> > *******
> >> > DRAM Frequency [Auto]
> >> >
> >> > Allows you to set the DDR operating frequency.
> >> >
> >> > Configuration options: [Auto] [DDR2-400MHz] [DDR2-533MHz]
> >> > [DDR2-667MHz] [DDR2-800MHz] [DDR2-711MHz] [DDR2-889MHz]
> >> > [DDR2-1067MHz]
> >> >
> >> > Available DRAM frequency options in various FSB settings
> >> >
> >> > FSB Configuration options
> >> > Auto DDR2- DDR2- DDR2- DDR2- DDR2- DDR2- DDR2-
> >> > 400 533 667 711* 800* 889* 1067*
> >> > FSB 1066 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> >> > FSB 800 ? ? ? ? ?
> >> > FSB 533 ? ? ?
> >> > * Provided for overclocking purpose only.
> >> > *******
> >> >
> >> > The SPD EEPROM chip on a DIMM, is only supposed to be programmed
> >> > with JEDEC approved information. This aids compatibility, in
> >> > that a BIOS only need know how to parse the expected JEDEC
> >> > values. I cannot find a reference to what JEDEC currently
> >> > approves, and if the max is still DDR2-667, then that is all
> >> > you should be finding programmed into the SPD.
> >> >
> >> > AFAIK, for overclockable modules, it is up to the user to set the
> >> > parameters to reach the maximum value. After all, you want the
> >> > computer to be able to POST first, and then try overclocking it.
> >> > If the computer failed to POST, because of some problem running
> >> > at DDR2-800, you'd be pissed.
> >> >
> >> > Paul
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