Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities
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From: Ron Rosenfeld on 7 May 2010 06:00 On Thu, 6 May 2010 18:22:26 -0400, "T. Valko" <biffinpitt(a)comcast.net> wrote: >>Are you referring to the NNTP Bridge? Or the Web UI? > >Sounds like the web UI. > >-- >Biff >Microsoft Excel MVP Well, I tried the Web UI again and, compared to my Forte Agent newsreader, I find it cumbersome and more time consuming. I have to do a lot more scrolling in order to follow a thread -- it seems that it will be a less efficient (more time-consuming) method of interacting on these forums. --ron
From: Bob Phillips on 7 May 2010 06:26 Avatar - wow I never joined the community so as to have a cool avatar! Points - I think it is insidious for two reasons, first you get people points chasing (just look at Experts Exchange), and secondly I fully expect MS to use those points as some time in the future. And what did obtaining a gold start give you? Edit posts - that is a double edged sword, as often a poster will read your mistaken post before you correct it and may be confused/distracted by it. You can easily follow-up with a correction, as you can/do in the NGs, but if you do edit I feel it would be better to leave the original mistake and then add the correction, it will avoid any chance of confusion. Screen space - filling the screen with junk, sound like the current MS philosophy to me generally (style gallery in the ribbon!). -- HTH Bob "Jim Thomlinson" <James_Thomlinson(a)owfg-Re-Move-This-.com> wrote in message news:CE51EAE7-54DF-49FD-ACE5-3FB6D7054A7F(a)microsoft.com... > Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it. > Could > it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and > the > like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar. > > As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am > with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I > just > got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping > that > out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed. > > Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the > number > of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly > mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes... > > First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted > space. > I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space. > -- > HTH... > > Jim Thomlinson > > > "Bob Phillips" wrote: > >> I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings >> in >> Answers. >> >> -- >> >> HTH >> >> Bob >> >> "Ron Rosenfeld" <ronrosenfeld(a)nospam.org> wrote in message >> news:2pa5u550f4ck5p0enpm9kvi50vtuj1a2vc(a)4ax.com... >> > On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips" >> > <bob.phillips(a)somewhere.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> >>That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't >> >>care, >> >>there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to >> >>your >> >>capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more >> >>capable >> >>users amongst us. >> >> >> >>Bob >> > >> > I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called >> > an >> > NNTP >> > Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better >> > than >> > the Web UI. >> > --ron >> >> >> . >>
From: Simon Lloyd on 7 May 2010 07:02 Bob, i agree, you can add all the whistles and bells or dangle the carrot as much as you want (as you know i have all that at my forums) but it doesn't change the useability, sure you can make some things easier as i have found out, but a forum is a forum in any shape. Editing posts, well how often do you go back and re-read a post or fully check a post that you have just had quoted in an email? i suspect never, though knowing you i'm probably talking to the ODD one that does :), i agree that showing your correction if you did edit the post is best but probably better to make another post with your correction. Naturally i would expect MS to use the points later as some sort of grading system, maybe even to ear mark you as either moderator for that forum or THE resident guru. And, FWIW i've never found you rude!, argumentative, opinionated yes, the trouble is you're usually right!!!!!! B o b P h i l l i p s ; 7 1 8 9 4 6 W r o t e : > Avatar - wow I never joined the community so as to have a cool avatar! Points - I think it is insidious for two reasons, first you get people points chasing (just look at Experts Exchange), and secondly I fully expect MS to use those points as some time in the future. And what did obtaining a gold start give you? Edit posts - that is a double edged sword, as often a poster will read your mistaken post before you correct it and may be confused/distracted by it. You can easily follow-up with a correction, as you can/do in the NGs, but if you do edit I feel it would be better to leave the original mistake and then add the correction, it will avoid any chance of confusion. Screen space - filling the screen with junk, sound like the current MS philosophy to me generally (style gallery in the ribbon!). -- HTH Bob "Jim Thomlinson" <James_Thomlinson(a)owfg-Re-Move-This-.com> wrote in message news:CE51EAE7-54DF-49FD-ACE5-3FB6D7054A7F(a)microsoft.com... > Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it. > Could > it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and > the > like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar. > > As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am > with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I > just > got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping > that > out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed. > > Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the > number > of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly > mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes... > > First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted > space. > I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space. > -- > HTH... > > Jim Thomlinson > > > "Bob Phillips" wrote: > >> I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings >> in >> Answers. >> >> -- >> >> HTH >> >> Bob >> >> "Ron Rosenfeld" <ronrosenfeld(a)nospam.org> wrote in message >> news:2pa5u550f4ck5p0enpm9kvi50vtuj1a2vc(a)4ax.com... >> > On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips" >> > <bob.phillips(a)somewhere.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> >>That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't >> >>care, >> >>there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to >> >>your >> >>capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more >> >>capable >> >>users amongst us. >> >> >> >>Bob >> > >> > I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called >> > an >> > NNTP >> > Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better >> > than >> > the Web UI. >> > --ron >> >> >> . >> -- Simon Lloyd Regards, Simon Lloyd 'Microsoft Office Help' (http://www.thecodecage.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Simon Lloyd's Profile: http://www.thecodecage.com/forumz/member.php?u=1 View this thread: http://www.thecodecage.com/forumz/showthread.php?t=200597 http://www.thecodecage.com/forumz
From: Jim Thomlinson on 7 May 2010 10:46 Yes it is the web UI I agree that the edit thing could allow users to go back and correct posts to appear as if they had the correct answer all along. I like it because by typing is terrible. I have been know to post code with typos and then have to go back in a new post to correct the typo. The avatar thing was done tongue in cheek. I am just waiting for someone to use an 'inappropriate' avatar to see what happens. MS is not the only company filling their screens with useless junk. We have software here at work that fills the screen with pretty junk and there is no way to remove it. Note to software vendors... form should follow function. Finally the gold star. I don't really care. I don't chase points. I see so many posters soliciting points and I am with you... why? Perhaps to impress others but there are individuals around here with medals that don't hold a candle to others without medals. I like seeing others biographies and backgrounds which is why you end up seeing my medals. No way to have one without the other. My parting word are go to the newsgroup with an open mind. It is certainly different from the current environment. Some good and some bad. Try not to make up your mind before you have given it a fair chance. XL2007 also takes a lot to get used to. It is slow and cumbersome at first. You really need to give it a chance. -- HTH... Jim Thomlinson "Bob Phillips" wrote: > Avatar - wow I never joined the community so as to have a cool avatar! > > Points - I think it is insidious for two reasons, first you get people > points chasing (just look at Experts Exchange), and secondly I fully expect > MS to use those points as some time in the future. And what did obtaining a > gold start give you? > > Edit posts - that is a double edged sword, as often a poster will read your > mistaken post before you correct it and may be confused/distracted by it. > You can easily follow-up with a correction, as you can/do in the NGs, but > if you do edit I feel it would be better to leave the original mistake and > then add the correction, it will avoid any chance of confusion. > > Screen space - filling the screen with junk, sound like the current MS > philosophy to me generally (style gallery in the ribbon!). > > > -- > > HTH > > Bob > > "Jim Thomlinson" <James_Thomlinson(a)owfg-Re-Move-This-.com> wrote in message > news:CE51EAE7-54DF-49FD-ACE5-3FB6D7054A7F(a)microsoft.com... > > Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it. > > Could > > it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and > > the > > like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar. > > > > As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am > > with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I > > just > > got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping > > that > > out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed. > > > > Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the > > number > > of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly > > mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes... > > > > First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted > > space. > > I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space. > > -- > > HTH... > > > > Jim Thomlinson > > > > > > "Bob Phillips" wrote: > > > >> I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings > >> in > >> Answers. > >> > >> -- > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> "Ron Rosenfeld" <ronrosenfeld(a)nospam.org> wrote in message > >> news:2pa5u550f4ck5p0enpm9kvi50vtuj1a2vc(a)4ax.com... > >> > On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips" > >> > <bob.phillips(a)somewhere.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >>That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't > >> >>care, > >> >>there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to > >> >>your > >> >>capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more > >> >>capable > >> >>users amongst us. > >> >> > >> >>Bob > >> > > >> > I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called > >> > an > >> > NNTP > >> > Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better > >> > than > >> > the Web UI. > >> > --ron > >> > >> > >> . > >> > > > . >
From: CLR on 8 May 2010 13:12
So what should an OP do if they want to post a question about Programming?......just post it anywhere and let MS sort it out? as in...... "Select the Best Forum Select the forum that most closely matches your topic. (Don't worry, if it's not the right one we'll move it for you.) " Does this mean MS will read EVERY post and place it where they think it should be, rather than where the OP posted it and will go to see if there are any replies. And don't forget, the "Notify me" feature has not worked for some time. I started using Excel several years ago, and have progressed to be the GOTO guy for Excel problems at the company I work for (over 1000 computers). I have responded to thousands of posts in the Excel Newsgroups, earned a Master MOUS certification on the side, and learned virtually everything I know by coming to the various Newsgroups, especially the Excel Programming Group. I have taught many others how to be better in excel and have written many many Application Programs in Excel for my Users. Virtually all of that use of Excel, by those dozens of folks, being a direct decendant of MY time on the Newsgroups. So not only did the Newsgroups help ME learn, that knowledge also rolled down hill to help many others. I am sad to see the loss of my source of learning, and my opportunity to assist others fade away. I agree with Jim Thomlinson who says...... > I like the way the news group works. It is simple and intuitive. The only > issues I have so far is that I don't want to lose the body of work that > exists in these forums. I often find myself searching for posts that I > read > long ago Vaya con Dios, Chuck, CABGx3 "Jim Thomlinson" <James_Thomlinson(a)owfg-Re-Move-This-.com> wrote in message news:7C967FD5-FA0F-424B-9AE1-4ECC86F068A6(a)microsoft.com... > To expand on what I said... > > I like the way the news group works. It is simple and intuitive. The only > issues I have so far is that I don't want to lose the body of work that > exists in these forums. I often find myself searching for posts that I > read > long ago. Secondly I am not sure that I like the new categories for XL. > Noteably the programming forum is gone. That being said the current > categories are not perfect either. > -- > HTH... > > Jim Thomlinson > > > "Jim Thomlinson" wrote: > >> I think I will try the new forum before I express an opinion on whether >> it is >> better or worse. Just my 2 cents. >> -- >> HTH... >> >> Jim Thomlinson >> >> >> "Joe User" wrote: >> >> > <nntp(a)microsoft.com> wrote: >> > > Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin >> > > progressively closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups >> > > to enrich conversations in the rapidly-growing forum >> > > platform. >> > >> > Translation: Microsoft will force people to use the web interface that >> > they >> > have maintained so poorly for years and that is the least reliable and >> > least >> > feature-rich interface for these "forums" that I am aware of. >> > >> > Confirmation of that fact comes from the official Microsoft Newsgroup >> > website http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx. >> > In >> > the Q&A there: >> > >> > "Q: Where can I access these forums from? >> > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx" >> > >> > The only potentially good thing to come out of this.... >> > >> > "Q: What should newsgroup users prepare for that will be different? >> > [....] >> > Additionally, Microsoft newsgroups are not moderated, while the forums >> > will >> > be." >> > >> > But the operative word is "potentially". >> > >> > First, Microsoft has demonstrated complete ineptitude in managing >> > "forums". >> > Their tools do not work. MS does not respond to problem reports. In >> > fact, >> > they do not even provide an effective way to report problems with >> > "forums". >> > >> > Second, moderating a group is either highly labor-intensive or useless >> > (just >> > a pass-thru). >> > >> > But if the moderation is real (and effective), that will mean that >> > postings >> > will incur delays. >> > >> > Moreover, I have never heard of moderation done on a scale this large. >> > Consider the traffic in the m.p.excel newsgroups alone. Well, perhaps >> > Microsoft will depend on MVPs to be moderators. >> > >> > Oh well.... >> > >> > >> > ----- original message ----- >> > >> > <nntp(a)microsoft.com> wrote in message >> > news:O31y6i$6KHA.2160(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> > > Date 5/4/2010 >> > > Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin progressively >> > > closing >> > > down the Microsoft public newsgroups to enrich conversations in the >> > > rapidly-growing forum platform. This decision is in response to >> > > worldwide >> > > market trends and evolving customer needs. >> > > >> > > Microsoft continues to invest in forums to reduce customer effort, >> > > consolidate community venues and make it easier for active >> > > contributors to >> > > retain their influence. Forums provide a healthy community >> > > environment >> > > with less spam and make answers easier to find by customers and >> > > search >> > > engines. Additionally, forums offer a better user and off-topic >> > > management platform that will improve customer satisfaction by >> > > facilitating discussions in a clean space. >> > > >> > > We understand that some newsgroups are still active, and important to >> > > the >> > > community. In the coming days and weeks, we will be rolling out >> > > tools and >> > > resources to minimize disruption to the community discussions. >> > > >> > > We are working diligently on providing additional resources and >> > > information in local languages later this week. In the meantime, >> > > please >> > > refer to the official Microsoft Newsgroup website >> > > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx >> > > concerning >> > > this issue. The Microsoft Newsgroup website will be made available >> > > in >> > > additional languages in the next few days. >> > > >> > >> > . >> > |