Microsoft closing their newsgroups??
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From: Peter Duniho on 5 May 2010 21:40 Arne Vajh�j wrote: > [...] > My understanding is that all NNTP servers are equal - there > are no masters. And lots of NNTP servers already carry > the ms groups today. Correct! Microsoft might, or might not, send out a "remove group" message for each of their "microsoft.public.*" newsgroups. ISPs that are currently already carrying those newsgroups (which as far as I know are most if not all of the major ones, including Google, Supernews, and Giganews) might, or might not, respect the "remove group" messages. As with "cancel" messages, because of net vandals there has been a trend for NNTP server admins to disable support for those types of messages. But it's possible that even for those ISPs that have disabled support for those messages, for a sweeping change like this, the ISPs might go ahead and manually remove the newsgroups. So, after all is said and done, if Microsoft does not explicitly attempt to remove the newsgroups, or if they do then for those ISPs that ignore that, the newsgroups will remain accessible through those ISPs that still carry the newsgroups. Pete
From: Arne Vajhøj on 5 May 2010 22:02 On 05-05-2010 21:40, Peter Duniho wrote: > Arne Vajh�j wrote: >> My understanding is that all NNTP servers are equal - there >> are no masters. And lots of NNTP servers already carry >> the ms groups today. > > Correct! > > Microsoft might, or might not, send out a "remove group" message for > each of their "microsoft.public.*" newsgroups. ISPs that are currently > already carrying those newsgroups (which as far as I know are most if > not all of the major ones, including Google, Supernews, and Giganews) > might, or might not, respect the "remove group" messages. > > As with "cancel" messages, because of net vandals there has been a trend > for NNTP server admins to disable support for those types of messages. > But it's possible that even for those ISPs that have disabled support > for those messages, for a sweeping change like this, the ISPs might go > ahead and manually remove the newsgroups. > > So, after all is said and done, if Microsoft does not explicitly attempt > to remove the newsgroups, or if they do then for those ISPs that ignore > that, the newsgroups will remain accessible through those ISPs that > still carry the newsgroups. And even those that did delete could potentially add the groups back at popular demand. Arne
From: Peter Duniho on 6 May 2010 00:02 Arne Vajh�j wrote: > [...] >> So, after all is said and done, if Microsoft does not explicitly attempt >> to remove the newsgroups, or if they do then for those ISPs that ignore >> that, the newsgroups will remain accessible through those ISPs that >> still carry the newsgroups. > > And even those that did delete could potentially add the groups > back at popular demand. That's true. But I doubt there would be the demand, nor enough interest on the part of the news server admins to revisit the decision once they removed the groups. The fact is, anyone who started using a computer after the web browser was invented is relatively unlikely to ever even consider expanding their horizon much beyond that browser, no matter what benefits might be present for them. The consequence is that relatively speaking, demand for newsgroups is dwindling, and is likely to only drop further. And for the admins' part, they are most likely to follow the same sort of single-minded decision-making that has led to Microsoft's ill-advised pursuit of their client-side-only "NNTP bridge" is likely to result in any news server admin that does decide to remove the groups to strongly resist any effort to add them back again, lest they admit any mistake on their part. Pete
From: Konrad Neitzel on 6 May 2010 07:48 Hi rossum, rossum wrote on 06.05.10 in microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp > Why not set up a comp.lang.csharp usenet group? Yeah. I agree to that. This seems to be the cleanest solution. But would be nice to hear more options about that. At the moment I am also thinking of using the nntp bridge to the forums that microsoft also offers. Konrad -- Konrad Neitzel - neitzel(a)neitzel.de MCTS SQL Server 2008, Database Development
From: Arne Vajhøj on 6 May 2010 19:42
On 06-05-2010 00:02, Peter Duniho wrote: > Arne Vajh�j wrote: >> [...] >>> So, after all is said and done, if Microsoft does not explicitly attempt >>> to remove the newsgroups, or if they do then for those ISPs that ignore >>> that, the newsgroups will remain accessible through those ISPs that >>> still carry the newsgroups. >> >> And even those that did delete could potentially add the groups >> back at popular demand. > > That's true. But I doubt there would be the demand, nor enough interest > on the part of the news server admins to revisit the decision once they > removed the groups. > > The fact is, anyone who started using a computer after the web browser > was invented is relatively unlikely to ever even consider expanding > their horizon much beyond that browser, no matter what benefits might be > present for them. The consequence is that relatively speaking, demand > for newsgroups is dwindling, and is likely to only drop further. > > And for the admins' part, they are most likely to follow the same sort > of single-minded decision-making that has led to Microsoft's ill-advised > pursuit of their client-side-only "NNTP bridge" is likely to result in > any news server admin that does decide to remove the groups to strongly > resist any effort to add them back again, lest they admit any mistake on > their part. If it is an ISP news service then yes. But because many ISP has been closing down their news services, then some dedicated news services are showing up. They have heard about usenet, because that is all they do. And they are likely to be sympathetic for adding a group like this (text content, developer oriented, no copyright issues - that is what they like). Arne |