From: Michael Torrie on
On 08/10/2010 02:07 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Tim Roberts wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure that's really fair. The .NET Common Language Runtime is a
>> vast and very useful class library, including two complete GUI systems. The
>> thought was that IronPython and IronRuby would let people who were
>> comfortable in those languages tap into the CLR.
>
> Is there any way for a non-.NET program to access a .NET library?
> Or is it necessary to drink the entire bottle of .NET kool-aid?

Well the only way for a non-.net program to access a .NET library is to
either embed .NET or use some kind of bridge via RPC.

So basically, the answer is "no." You pretty much have to embrace .NET
or not use it.
From: Jason Earl on
On Tue, Aug 10 2010, Ben Finney wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS(a)cybersource.com.au> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:07:06 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>> > Is there any way for a non-.NET program to access a .NET library? Or
>> > is it necessary to drink the entire bottle of .NET kool-aid?
>>
>> http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
>
> Anyone thinking of using Mono needs to be aware of the dangers of
> software patents in general, and of .NET in paticular.
>
> The copyright license for Mono is under free software terms. But that
> gives no license at all for the patents. Novell, who have an exclusive
> deal for those patents, happily encourages use of Mono by third
> parties.
>
> The controversy has raged for a number of years. For more coverage
> than you have time for, see
> <URL:http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Mono>. The issue has
> polarised discussion, unfortunately, and there is a lot of
> name-calling and hyperbole on the record now.
>
> As the Mono site hints, the patent situation for .NET is *very* muddy.
> Microsoft hold patents covering much of .NET, but have made a
> (non-binding) “Community Promise” that applies to *some* parts of .NET
> <URL:http://www.mono-project.com/Licensing#Patents>.

Which is more of a promise than Microsoft has given to Python. I am not
arguing for Mono, as I am not a fan. But if you honestly think that
Python doesn't infringe on some of Microsoft's patents you are crazy.
So where is the promise from Microsoft saying that they won't sue the
Python development team into oblivion, or Python end users, for that
matter?

There isn't one.

So while the Mono promise doesn't cover all of Mono, it does cover
*some* of Mono, which is better than what Python can say. If you happen
to be believe that Microsoft is likely to attack Free Software via
patents then Mono is arguably the safest choice. Especially if you
confine yourself to the ECMA-sponsored core and the Free Software
libraries that are not re-implementations of Microsoft's technology.

Jason
From: Ben Finney on
Jason Earl <jearl(a)notengoamigos.org> writes:

> Which is more of a promise than Microsoft has given to Python. I am
> not arguing for Mono, as I am not a fan. But if you honestly think
> that Python doesn't infringe on some of Microsoft's patents you are
> crazy.

It's quite true that anyone can be sued, at any time, for anything. And
any program can, because of the crazy patent system in many countries,
be infringing any (usually large) number of software idea patent claims,
without the programmers having done anything unusual to cause that
situation.

Microsoft, or any other party for that matter, very well may have any
number of software idea patents that could be interpreted to cover
Python's code.

The main difference in the case of Mono is that Microsoft has widely and
repeatedly asserted that such patents do exist, their assertions seem
quite plausible since they wrote the specifications on which Mono is
implemented, its “Community Promise” very carefully does *not* grant any
kind of binding permission to implement or use software ideas from those
patents, and it has consistently wielded other such patents aggressively
and maintains the willingness to continue to do so.

None of that is true for Python. Which is why people aren't saying
Python is a patent trap, but rather that Mono is.

--
\ “Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so |
`\ why should they care about it?” —Thomas Hesse, Sony BMG, 2006 |
_o__) |
Ben Finney